Disco 5: Let the depression set in
- Thread starter ERover82
- Start date
LOL, Salty McSaltenstein. At least Toyota still imports Trucks and haven't resorted to all Crossovers... What a fuckin joke. Would expect no less from a company called Tata.
Interesting, thanks for posting that. I actually think they've done an outstanding job of glamorizing the brand while still occupying a unique niche of a capable luxury vehicle. And the designs (again, IMO) keep getting better and better......... With the huge glaring exception of the Discovery Sport, which is essentially a Ford Explorer. There's just no way around that. So the existence of the vehicle sort of negates what would otherwise be a good (IMO) presentation.
Land Rover is bringing out crossovers (no live axles, no trucks, no simplicity). This is to allow Jaguar/Land Rover to share platforms, as was stated to a number of us members from Southern California Land Rover, at an invited presentation in Santa Monica, California, about 3 years ago.
Ford, Mercedes Benz, and Jeep produce both trucks and crossovers. These companies still value building trucks.
I just love the RRC, Discovery I, P38, and Discovery II for the live axles and simplicity (air suspensions removed). The newer Land Rover products scare me with regards to going off-road (too complex when problems happen). Friend and his wife blew out an air shock on their LR3 in Anza Borrego, California. It took them over 3 hours to cover the 1/2 mile to a paved road.
I really hate to say it, but if you think that you can afford a new or used Range Rover, you might want to consider the Mercedes Benz Gelandewagen, instead. It is as close as you are going to get to the older style set-up of our older Land Rovers.
Ford, Mercedes Benz, and Jeep produce both trucks and crossovers. These companies still value building trucks.
I just love the RRC, Discovery I, P38, and Discovery II for the live axles and simplicity (air suspensions removed). The newer Land Rover products scare me with regards to going off-road (too complex when problems happen). Friend and his wife blew out an air shock on their LR3 in Anza Borrego, California. It took them over 3 hours to cover the 1/2 mile to a paved road.
I really hate to say it, but if you think that you can afford a new or used Range Rover, you might want to consider the Mercedes Benz Gelandewagen, instead. It is as close as you are going to get to the older style set-up of our older Land Rovers.
The 01 Disco I used to have had air bags in the back. I blew one about 50 miles north of I-80. Fortunately it blew the top off and didn't tear the bag. Putting the metal ring back on was impossible. I joined a few hose clamps together to clamp it back on to the top and it actually held air for a couple of weeks until I replaced them with springs.
My current P38 had springs put on by the PO. They appear to be about new regular AB's (no gunk on anything). I considered putting the the airbags back on as everything is in place, but I really don't want to fret about them every time I go off road or carry spare air bags, etc.
If I just used it for the street I'd probably put the bags back on for the better ride and ability to raise/lower.
I decided I'll be swapping the springs out for a 2" set of RTE's or OME's and longer shocks in the near future.
I dunno. I've been relatively impressed with the air suspended LR3s I've seen off-road, and I would imagine the LR4s and RRs perform similarly. There just isn't a market of people willing to pay luxury car dollar for solid axle SUVs, hence the move upmarket (and away from axles) by LR. I'm not sure that means the brand completely abandons its heritage, or that you won't see these vehicles built up a decade hence. Remember what people used to say about Disco IIs. Just my opinion, but I think LR has done a good job of moving up market while preserving the brand given the market realities.
*But that Discovery Sport is a whole different matter. Just a trainwreck. Really makes me concerned for the Defender. I still can't understand how hard it would have been to build a regulation-compliant Defender given that Jeep keeps pumping out vehicles.
*But that Discovery Sport is a whole different matter. Just a trainwreck. Really makes me concerned for the Defender. I still can't understand how hard it would have been to build a regulation-compliant Defender given that Jeep keeps pumping out vehicles.
With as many Jeeps are being sold, you would think Land Rover would want to get in on that. People are paying stupid money for those JK wranglers, and then spending even more on mods.
Land Rover is one of the few that could compete directly with Jeep if they wanted to.
Toyota is still introducing body on frame SUV's that are as plush and have offroad capability.
Land Rover needs to go back to their roots!
I don't believe the complete mainstream move is necessary. The products could be developed and positioned to compete in modern markets in this way:
Position Range Rover against the Suburban/Escalade/Mercedes GL/ G (lux versions). RR's have become too small, rounded, and crossover like. The Chevy SUVs sell well with business owners and professionals due to their commanding but respectable design, expansive interior space, and luxury. Make the RR larger, more squared, use traditional design cues, and retain offroad leadership.
Position Discovery with Land Cruiser, 4Runner, Mercedes G(non-lux versions). Wont sell millions, but there will always be a market for traditional, large, medium wheelbase SUVs. Use traditional Discovery design cues, maintain offroad leadership, high level of versatility and utility, and deliver a higher than market standard luxury level.
Position Defender variants (short/long wheelbase, SUV/Pickup) against Wranger, 70 series, and Tundras, Titans, Powerwagons, Raptors. These markets move vehicles, and Rover could compete naturally in these segments. Compete with aggressive but traditional design, offroad leadership, durability, and features.
Position Range Rover against the Suburban/Escalade/Mercedes GL/ G (lux versions). RR's have become too small, rounded, and crossover like. The Chevy SUVs sell well with business owners and professionals due to their commanding but respectable design, expansive interior space, and luxury. Make the RR larger, more squared, use traditional design cues, and retain offroad leadership.
Position Discovery with Land Cruiser, 4Runner, Mercedes G(non-lux versions). Wont sell millions, but there will always be a market for traditional, large, medium wheelbase SUVs. Use traditional Discovery design cues, maintain offroad leadership, high level of versatility and utility, and deliver a higher than market standard luxury level.
Position Defender variants (short/long wheelbase, SUV/Pickup) against Wranger, 70 series, and Tundras, Titans, Powerwagons, Raptors. These markets move vehicles, and Rover could compete naturally in these segments. Compete with aggressive but traditional design, offroad leadership, durability, and features.
What? With each redesign the RR has become bigger:
- RRC : 100" wheelbase
- RRC LWB: 108"
- P38: 108"
- L322: 113.4"
- L405 (current model): 115"
- L405 LWB: 122.8"
So in the 20 years since the RRC was phased out the Range Rover wheelbase has increased by nearly two feet. I've driven the L322 and that thing feels massive. Not Suburban big, but plenty large. Makes my Disco feel small and nimble by comparison. The Evoque is a completely different creature, if that's what you're referring to - that is definitely small, rounded, and crossover-like.
It's definitely become larger over time, but considering to its market position and competition, I believe it's too small.
Most of these "anti-LR" comments can be levelled at every car maker, including Morgan! It's life. Get over it.
I think the competition to the RR is different from what you suggest. I don't think JLR sees the Suburban or Escalade as being in the same market. RR has for a long time been in a market of its own and only recently have other luxury carmakers entered that segment. Someone considering a RR might otherwise buy a Bentley or Maserati. Maybe a Merc GL/G500. Definitely not a Suburban or Escalade. Nobody buying a RR is going to want seating for 7. The security detail can ride in their own damn RR.
Agreed 100%. I don't see RR competing with Tahoe, Suburban, even Escalade, etc. It's at an entirely different price point and level of luxury brand perception.
However, as it regards my criticism of Discovery Sport and overall LR strategy, you don't see Porsche or Bentley coming out with a downmarket knock-off design to dilute their brand. The D-Sport was a big mistake.
Agreed that Chevy and RR are different price points and their markets don't completely overlap. What I'm getting at is that as a business owner or professional, transporting clients, customers, and family in luxury without ostentatious appearance is high on the list of priorities. This is where the Chevy platform really excels. RR should deliver a 1st class experience for occupants and part of that is having room.
This is a photo of the rear seating arrangement on the RR Autobiography. Apparently these are popular in the middle east because in places where driving by women is frowned upon wealthy guys can have their wives chauffeured in style. Space and comfort don't appear to be in short supply.
Ignore the political part...just showing the same "from then to now" with another iconic offroad brand...
If Brexit and Trump are successful will Jeep look like M38 and LRs like Series 1?
#MakeBritGreatAgain
#MakeBritGreatAgain
I'm a little annoyed.
I've been searching around for a new car; something to enjoy every day that'll give me some fun here and there. Not entirely sure what I want, but I have looked into the LR4... Only to find that they've ditched the V8 for a blown V6.
After all this time, the styling finally grew on me, and then they put that thing in the engine bay. I'd rather have a four, a straight six (I realize that one is a bit unreasonable these days), a V8, or even a diesel borrowed from something else.
I also don't feel I should have to add the HD package to make it what it's supposed to be; certainly not at the price they're demanding for them. It's not really a big deal financially, but it's a bit of an insult.
The pictured concept looks like the Discovery Sport. I'm not really interested, as it does indeed look like an Explorer.
Cheers,
Kennith
I've been searching around for a new car; something to enjoy every day that'll give me some fun here and there. Not entirely sure what I want, but I have looked into the LR4... Only to find that they've ditched the V8 for a blown V6.
After all this time, the styling finally grew on me, and then they put that thing in the engine bay. I'd rather have a four, a straight six (I realize that one is a bit unreasonable these days), a V8, or even a diesel borrowed from something else.
I also don't feel I should have to add the HD package to make it what it's supposed to be; certainly not at the price they're demanding for them. It's not really a big deal financially, but it's a bit of an insult.
The pictured concept looks like the Discovery Sport. I'm not really interested, as it does indeed look like an Explorer.
Cheers,
Kennith