Disco 5: Let the depression set in

[p m]

Ignore the political part...just showing the same "from then to now" with another iconic offroad brand...

XJ Cherokee passed away in 2002. In the ROW, the nameplate Cherokee belonged to what we know in the U.S. as Liberty - pretty capable but ugly truck.

 

[emmodg]

Let's all be perfectly honest - Land Rover hasn't changed so much as their customer has. They're only responding to the market, they're not shaping it. They will build what the MAJORITY want, not the few "enthusiasts". I certainly can't blame them.

 

[Tugela]

Is that the case, though? Is necessity the mother of invention or is it the other way around? You didn't know you needed a smartphone before Apple created it. Now it's indispensable. Did someone wake up one morning thinking "I could really go for a deep-fried Snickers bar" or did someone wake up and think "I bet if I deep-fried a Snickers bar I could sell a thousand at the county fair"?

I wonder what the sales would be if Land Rover redesigned the Defender to be:

• reasonably priced
• mechanically & electrically simple
• as easy to work on as possible in the constraints of safety elements
• reliable
• capable
• easily modified
• reasonably fuel efficient
• good looking

would it be a success?

Maybe they still will. Maybe all the models they've introduced since the L405 have been soft "leisure" models for the buyers who think they need a 4x4 to get to the mall and the forthcoming Defender will be catered to a different buyer. One can hope.

 

[kennith]

Consider this, though:

People would expect a Defender that will walk right past a Range Rover on a trail right out of the showroom...

That isn't going to happen easily. It can have the angles, but the performance on tap with these "leisure" models is biblical when shod with off-pavement rubber.

The answer may be a bed; creating a "Gentleman's Hauler" with a hard cap option to bring back a classic look. Right now, there really isn't anything on the market like that, unless Jeep hits the market with their pickup.

If that's not the case, the Defender would have to be a more budget-oriented model; priced alongside the Discovery Sport and Evoque. It could use a nice new diesel to clean up it's image, as well. Otherwise, it's just not going to sell.

It's either got to be something new and unique, or priced within ten grand of a Hard Rock.

Of course, they could shoot for a versatile platform and try for government and fleet sales. They'll dilute the new brand image they've worked so hard for, though.

Cheers,

Kennith

 

[MM3846]

I don't see how any modern Rover, if fitted with at least one solid axle, the ground clearance of a Defender, and the traction of control of the L405 wouldn't wipe the floor of any showroom stock 4x4 out there. It's only competition would be the JK rubi or maybe the Taco and 4Runner in the states.

 

[jhmover]

I don't even like the new Range Rovers and RR Sports because of the front end. LR keeps going for the Japanese look.

Kennith: Jag may be coming out with a modular straight 6, perhaps if you wait it will end up in a LR.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/news/a28881/jaguar-straight-six-rumor/

 

[jim-00-4.6]

I don't see how any modern Rover, if fitted with at least one solid axle, the ground clearance of a Defender, and the traction of control of the L405 wouldn't wipe the floor of any showroom stock 4x4 out there. It's only competition would be the JK rubi or maybe the Taco and 4Runner in the states.

You don't even really need the solid axle.
My 05 RR has no solid axles.
Offroad, in low range, it pretends that it does by inflating the airspring opposite the one being compressed.
Granted, I've never taken it on any "serious" off-road trails, but I have cruised right by toyotas with 1 wheel spinning in the air and no forward movement.
I've been on the same trails in my stock Liberty and scraped the bottom in places that the RR just floated through.
"Floated" is exactly what it feels like on an air-sprung RR. Just cruising along in total comfort; the fact that I'm in dirt and driving over bowling ball sized rocks didn't really matter.
Hell, my 01 RR was the same as far as comfort; although it was a solid axle model.

Realistically, a $85,000 Range Rover SHOULD be able to outperform a $45,000 Rubicon using any comparison; comfort, highway performance, AND off-road performance.
If it can't, why does it cost $85,000? Just for the nameplate?
Rover HAS returned to it's roots; a prestige marquee, a "look at what I have" vehicle.
OK, maybe not "roots", but that's what the Range Rovers have pretty much always been.

I really don't care for the rounded, Kia-inspired styling.
To me, the evoque is an abomination, without even considering the douchebag spelling.

You ever been invited to a "focus group"?
Yeah, me neither.
I think you have to be a pansy to get invited, which is why everyone makes pansy-cars.

Compare the RR to similarly-priced and equally luxurious vehicles.
Apples to apples, the RR kicks off-road ass.

 

[jim-00-4.6]

This is a photo of the rear seating arrangement on the RR Autobiography.
...
Space and comfort don't appear to be in short supply.

Damn, that's pretty.
I don't really see how the wives of the sand monkeys could really enjoy it, what with burlap bags over their heads.

 

[p m]

I don't see how any modern Rover, if fitted with at least one solid axle, the ground clearance of a Defender, and the traction of control of the L405 wouldn't wipe the floor of any showroom stock 4x4 out there. It's only competition would be the JK rubi or maybe the Taco and 4Runner in the states.

I don't think any modern Rover, with solid axles or not, comes close to a Gelaendewagen.
The price seems to reflect this as well.

 

[pinkytoe69]

sand monkeys

I don't think that's the preferred nomenclature.

 

[emmodg]

To wit! I give you the Bentley Bentayga "Fly Fishing Edition"! Again - they are responding to market....

 

[jhmover]

To wit! I give you the Bentley Bentayga "Fly Fishing Edition"! Again - they are responding to market....

I shay....:ack:

 

[Howski]

To wit! I give you the Bentley Bentayga "Fly Fishing Edition"! Again - they are responding to market....

Who the shit would toss a wet pair of waders all over that interior? The H&H RR is a hell of a lot more functional

 

[emmodg]

Who the shit would toss a wet pair of waders all over that interior? The H&H RR is a hell of a lot more functional

The same douche-canoe that buys the most expensive RR. The majority of the population could give two shits whether a Defender is good off road as it used to be. They don't care whether an LR4 is more capable than an LR3. They don't care if it's an "inline-this", "v-that", or whether it's a "3.4 with DOHC and 3 Johnson Rods"! They just need to know it's a new RR or Bentley and that it says so on the hood!

 

[SCSL]

I must be the only bonafide Roverhead that likes the Evoque. Not what I would buy for myself, but I like it. My wife wants one and I would much rather see her in that than the Explorer knock-off. (They should have kept the LRX name though.) I'll probably get one once they depreciate 80%....

 

[emmodg]

Is the Evoque safer than the Explorer? Cheaper to maintain?

 

[K-rover]

I must be the only bonafide Roverhead that likes the Evoque. Not what I would buy for myself, but I like it. My wife wants one and I would much rather see her in that than the Explorer knock-off. (They should have kept the LRX name though.) I'll probably get one once they depreciate 80%....

My girlfriend wants one too.. she's getting a settlement from Volkswagen as part of the diesal emissions debacle..they are offering to buy back the car at 2015 good condition value plus up to $5000 in I'm sorry for lying money.

 

[mgreenspan]

I have liked every product they made up until the new curvy RR and the disco sport and now disco 5.

I liked the freelander. Smaller economical but unique look. Would have loved it if it had low range. Unfortunately in the US it sucked because marketing here is based on HP of engines and nothing else. No reason for the engines we got in it.

I would have liked the DC100 as a separate vehicle unrelated to the defender if it had small rims with actual sidewall space.

The new Rover offerings are not unique or inspiring.

The likelihood that the new defender will suck is very high. Gerry McGovern is an idiot in my opinion and the shitbirds that say the current vehicles are selling and they are making money only enable his idiocy. LR could have been selling a Defender in the US and crushing it. Instead everybody has been buying Jeep Unlimited and 4runners. They are going to show up to the championship a day late and a dollar short and realize that they didn't even qualify to play. They'll have an overpriced and over optioned vehicle that won't sell and then they'll really stick a fork in the off road heritage. After that, low range will be an $10k option on top of the line range rovers just so people can talk about it.

 

[P38]

Gerry McGovern is an idiot in my opinion and the shitbirds that say the current vehicles are selling and they are making money only enable his idiocy.

The facts are the facts and you might be in a very small minority. "Idiot" he clearly isn't. Their product sell like hotcakes and they employ many more than they'd laid off. Whatever measurement you use, they are doing business "right", just not for you...

 

[mgreenspan]

The facts are the facts and you might be in a very small minority. "Idiot" he clearly isn't. Their product sell like hotcakes and they employ many more than they'd laid off. Whatever measurement you use, they are doing business "right", just not for you...

Facts.


Are you saying their sales plan is working to maximize their profits? In the US in 2015, Jeep sold 202,702 Wranglers. In the US in 2014, Jeep sold 175,328. Land Rover sold zero Defenders or Defender replacements in 2014 or 2015 in the US. Land Rover is making zero effort to cut into that market at all. Additionally, in 2015 in the US, Jeep sold 220,260 Cherokees. Land Rover didn't touch that in Evoques which doesn't compare but they sure as shit aren't going to touch that in disco sports. Really solid sales plan.

Idiot he is. If you market to wealthy only wealthy will buy your product. Which car companies rake in the profits?