Ethenol Debate? Public comment...

landrovered

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2006
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As an oxygenate, ethanol like MTBE does reduce emissions but the increase to 15% is nothing more than a giveaway to big agriculture and the midwest farm lobby. ADM, Cargill and the lot are getting their moneys worth from K street.
 

MarkP

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
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Colorado
Ethanol drives food cost higher.

This is also bad timing as global cooling reduces total world food production.
 

Blue

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Mar 26, 2004
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AZ
but...but....but...we have to do SOMETHING. Al Gore is peeing his pants, running around in circles screaming that the sky is falling, still trying to stay relevant with his global warming crap.
 

noee

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
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Free Union, VA
Either way, they're gonna ram-rod this cap-n-trade BS down our throats and Gore stands to make lots-o-cabbage when they do. He's a sick whore.
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,070
881
AZ
I don't know........

Global warming is still on the teeter-totter and it's on its way out of vogue. This cap & trade crap is indeed being ram-rodded but there's only so much shit the toilet can take before it backs up. People follow their feelings and their wallets, but not necessarily in that order.

But I do know that Al Gore is a sick whore.
 
J

junkyarddisco

Guest
my officemate's lincoln, which ordinarily gets ~30 mpg, was down to 22 mpg after filling up at a station with ethanol

first time we had to stop for gas twice on a trip to greenville and back
 

Roverlady

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Apr 20, 2004
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Shenandoah valley
^^^I think ethanol kills the mpg! Our truck runs rough on it and while we have gotten 21-22mpg on the highway, the ethanol mixtures make it more like 18mpg.

PS I agree about Al Gore though. I'm a card-carrying democrat and environmental 'believer,' but he is bugging the hell out of me with all of his claims!
 
Blue said:
I don't know........

Global warming is still on the teeter-totter and it's on its way out of vogue. This cap & trade crap is indeed being ram-rodded but there's only so much shit the toilet can take before it backs up. People follow their feelings and their wallets, but not necessarily in that order.

But I do know that Al Gore is a sick whore.

The need to be able to eat and have an economy will overshadow feel good environmentalism.

Either that, or the entire planet will implode upon itself.

Ethanol is a fine sovlent and fuel, but not necessarily if it is made with/from corn.
 

flyfisher11

Well-known member
May 25, 2005
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Wolf Laurel NC
Roverlady......I'm a card-carrying democrat and environmental 'believer said:
I'm a card carrying republican and conservationist. Al Gore IS a world class assclown.

Wow both sides agree!!! There is hope for America!
 

apg

Well-known member
Dec 28, 2004
3,019
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East Virginia
The entire ethanol scam has been foisted upon this nation by special interests and well-paid lobbyists. Financially speaking, it is a classic 'bubble' scenario, not too dissimilar to what happened with sunflower oil seeds and processing plants back in the 1980's. Some of these plants, built at a cost of $50 million per, never squeezed a seed, and were eventually sold for scrap metal. The same economy seems to be happening with ethanol plants....

As someone on this board likes to say, "follow the money". Who is benefiting the most from the ethanol bubble? Big ag-business in general and the ArcherDanielsMidland Corp., specifically. The concept of ethanol is fine, but its execution leaves a lot to be desired. The cost of food and feed worldwidel, everything from corn syrup to tortillas, has gone up dramatically. While this might not mean much to folks in the US, there was almost a revolt in Mexico over the increased cost of masa....

Ethanol was meant to replace MTBE, methyl tetrabutyl ether as an oxygenator in fuels. Trouble was, MTBE is a long-lasting pollutant/carcinogen easily transported by ground water. Guess who was the largest manufacturer of MTBE? The ADM Corp....

See a pattern here?

There is no way that ethanol made from corn can be economical - it costs too much in terms of fertilizer, food cost increases, and energy. It only enriches a few....
 

landrovered

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2006
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In typical US corporate think fashion, the margins for wet-mill ethanol were very very low so ADM and Cargill's answer was to increase the size of the plants to extremes thus making them even more suceptable to fluctuations in the marketplace. It is the peter principle in action.
 

MarkP

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Apr 23, 2004
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Colorado
Roverlady said:
...PS I agree about Al Gore though. I'm a card-carrying democrat and environmental 'believer,' but he is bugging the hell out of me with all of his claims!

Someone finally expressed what I have been saying for a long time .....

h/t Jesse's Caf? Am?ricain
 
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Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,070
881
AZ
That chart makes me want to puke...reminds me of delirious 3-day corporate meetings that all ended with the "aren't we cute with our super-duper informative chart that the committe came up with" charts.