antichrist said:
and THAT is fact......hey tom i'm moving to atl in the summer, you gotta tell me the good places to wheel
and THAT is fact......hey tom i'm moving to atl in the summer, you gotta tell me the good places to wheel
Having built my own front bumber and can say without a doubt that after a Chevy Trailblazer hit me while she made a left on green (while I had the right of way to go straight) I know I wouldn't have wanted to be her. Her crush zone was the front bumber, grill, headlight, fender and hood. Not sure how much damage was done beyond that, but it scratched the paint on my bumper. I guess it is just how strong you have things built. I also took out a tree while off roading a while back, but that didn't even scratch the paint.
I Would have bought the RTE, but wanted to try and build my own first....
I Would have bought the RTE, but wanted to try and build my own first....
No matter what bumper you might buy, none are designed to take on an impact at highway speeds. The manufacturers build these bumpers to fit demand and to be as least expensive as possible. Which means suitable in some situations, but inferior in other.
I believe what a couple others said above......being thoroughly prepared for the environment is the only assurance of survival. If I lived where elk and other large animals roam, I would be prepared. I definitely wouldn't leave it up to a bumper manufacturer to decide my safety. Sure, they build good products. And sure, you will get experiences here from people from all over. But why trust any of them?
Take your life into your own hands. Bumpers are designed for different environments. Make the bumper you buy fit your environment specifically. If I were in elk country, why not take my ARB or RTE and reinforce it? Weld aluminum sheeting to the inside, or fill the tubes with material that will make them stronger. Although adding weight to the bumper could be a problem, adding strength is the positive offset. Making a bumper stronger should be your only choice. Make it where you feel better and safer.
Don't take a bow and arrow to a gun fight.
atriot:
I believe what a couple others said above......being thoroughly prepared for the environment is the only assurance of survival. If I lived where elk and other large animals roam, I would be prepared. I definitely wouldn't leave it up to a bumper manufacturer to decide my safety. Sure, they build good products. And sure, you will get experiences here from people from all over. But why trust any of them?
Take your life into your own hands. Bumpers are designed for different environments. Make the bumper you buy fit your environment specifically. If I were in elk country, why not take my ARB or RTE and reinforce it? Weld aluminum sheeting to the inside, or fill the tubes with material that will make them stronger. Although adding weight to the bumper could be a problem, adding strength is the positive offset. Making a bumper stronger should be your only choice. Make it where you feel better and safer.
Don't take a bow and arrow to a gun fight.
atriot:
It was always my understanding that ARBs claim to fame was that it was designed to take an impact with a kangaroo in the outback and not total the vehicle.
You can't compare trail damage to roadway damage. And crashing a 3/16" to 1/4", or thicker steel bumper into a car with 3mm thick skin isn't exactly a good comparison either. Of course the bumper will win. There are just too many variables involved to say one is better than the other in all situations.
I would however, expect that guy's bumper to have held up a little better. I haven't seen pictures but it sounds like "it" was what disabled his vehicle. I thought that road was more traveled than that?
I would however, expect that guy's bumper to have held up a little better. I haven't seen pictures but it sounds like "it" was what disabled his vehicle. I thought that road was more traveled than that?
It looks to me the Rovertyme bumper may be the thickest and strongest on a front side impact but the ARB will be very strong head on. And as someone mentioned a collapsing bumper mount absorbs the vibration, where a frame mount is harder on occupant on impact and can damage the frame. There are so may variables like speed, impact point, weight of object being hit etc. The pictuires of the TJM show the bvumper did its job it crushed in and dampened the impact, kept the front of the truck intact (less the side marker light) and for the speed of impact it is pretty good. Purely speculating if i was rock crawling and hitting things at low speed from off center hits the Rovertyme is the best, for on road type impacts at speed I think a collapsing or thinner bumper may do less damage to occupant or the frame of the vehicle. This thread is impossible to resolve, but its a fun thread to discuss!
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Schattenjager said:
please keep in mind your original post was an anecdotal account of another brand of vehicle in an uncontrolled, non-repeateable event with an almost infinte number of variables. i don't see how you could even think this amounts to empirical evidence. anyhoo, as others have said, in a place like AK in the winter, you have to plan on things failing, including your plans. as others have pointed out, the accident is not what killed the driver of your anecdote; it was a lack of preparation.
while there are no documented RTE vs large game encounters, most people here support their bumper because it is a strong box frame design built with quality materials and good technique. while the ARB and TJM bumpers are well made, they are made from much lighter material and are not box section in design. this is why people lean towards the RTE so much. also, if you look at anyone's bull-bar design, you should be able to see that the design in its current iteration is not made for hitting animals. not even RTE's thin, unsupported tube bull-bars would be enough to withstand striking a large game animal at freeway speeds.
anyhoo, studying about materials, fabrication techniques, etc would be helpful for you.
S
Schattenjager
Guest
:rofl: Just re-read these posts and you will see my concern... I was not talking about a bumper saving someones life nor how to survive in the wilds. I was curious if this guy drove this route a lot, was concerned enough to ask around, AND was sold a bill of goods by folks that do not read posts or pay attention to anything other than thier own opinion. Geez. I do not doubt a RTE or ARB would fair far better than a Genuine 'Brush' Bar - maybe spared his truck terminal damage. BUT that was not the point, now was it? Looking at the replys to this post just makes my point, so I'll shut up now. :smilelol:
i have the tjm on my truck and while i have not hit anything with it going faster than an offroad crawl, i have always felt good about the product. in fact, in looking at the deer strike photos, i still feel pretty good about it. if that guy hit the deer at 75 miles per hour, then that was a pretty good whack. of course it all depends on the size of the deer, but i say the bumper did what it was designed to do, protect from a kangaroo (or deer sized) impact. it was not, however designed to hit moose at 75mph.
i would say that one should arm themselves reasonably for the situation they expect to be in and compliment that with common sense.
after that, rely on the force more powerful than luck...
imho...
i would say that one should arm themselves reasonably for the situation they expect to be in and compliment that with common sense.
after that, rely on the force more powerful than luck...
imho...
Well regarding a factory or aftermarket brush bar I wouldn't expect one to deflect much of anything other than brush, they're decorative crap.
I missed it, thankfully, but the Hip Hop awards were right across the street here in Midtown last sunday. You can bet there were a lot of hummers and escalades with 20" spinners. :ack:flyfisher11 said:
What exactly was the point? That someone is suggesting that if you install Brand X bumper then hit a caribou at highway speeds your vehicle will still be driveable? IMHO if someone told me that and I went out and did it, I'd deserve a darwin award.Schattenjager said:
I've rebuilt my own engines and gearboxes many times, and offer folks tips on doing it. Does that mean if they do it and then do something stupid and die, it's somehow my fault? Or that I gave them bad advice?
The very first responsibility of anyone reading technical information here is to recognize; YMMV.
I thought the point of this thread was do we have the responsibility to disclaim our opinions or facts? There are many things that caused this man to die and one of those is not being prepared. But, not knowing what bumper he had, did that cause the engine failure that in turn caused him to die? If, lets say, he had a RTE bumper that bent in such a way as to disable the truck and could have had the option of a, lets say, TJM that wouldn't have bent in such a way as to disable the truck, do we have the responsibility to let readers know that "I have the RTE/ARB/TJM/homemade bumper but to be honest, it's not tested?"
I think that's the point of this thread. As I read it. Nothing to do about bumpers and survival gear. It's about our posts and how factual vs. opinion they are. Concern is that we may "talk" someone into anything on this board (in this case bumpers) when we don't have the facts and it's based on opinion. In that case, could we then in turn risk life and limb to another?
I think it's a worthy thread on it's original topic. Here's a scenario...I'm in the market for a bumper. On this board I read that guys like the RTE over the ARB. However, it's based on our opinion of approach angle and "flexing" during winching. One thing we don't know is that when hitting something at, lets say, 50 mph, the corner of the RTE for some unknown reason bends up and back into the radiator killing the engine while the ARB has some reinforcement arm that prohibits that from happening.
We dont' have those facts. They aren't testing products in that manner. I guess it's being requested that we put that disclaimer on our posts.
I don't personally need a discaimer as I tend to over research things and can usually tell when it's fact vs. opinion. Then I usually make up my own mind.
But, I can see validitly in this request. I recently bought a bumper and only a handful of poeple on this board liked it (not a mainstream) a lot did not for many reasons. If I had some factual information about it bending like a pipe cleaner in an accident, I might have reconsidered.
I'm trusting natural selection to take me out when it's time.
I think that's the point of this thread. As I read it. Nothing to do about bumpers and survival gear. It's about our posts and how factual vs. opinion they are. Concern is that we may "talk" someone into anything on this board (in this case bumpers) when we don't have the facts and it's based on opinion. In that case, could we then in turn risk life and limb to another?
I think it's a worthy thread on it's original topic. Here's a scenario...I'm in the market for a bumper. On this board I read that guys like the RTE over the ARB. However, it's based on our opinion of approach angle and "flexing" during winching. One thing we don't know is that when hitting something at, lets say, 50 mph, the corner of the RTE for some unknown reason bends up and back into the radiator killing the engine while the ARB has some reinforcement arm that prohibits that from happening.
We dont' have those facts. They aren't testing products in that manner. I guess it's being requested that we put that disclaimer on our posts.
I don't personally need a discaimer as I tend to over research things and can usually tell when it's fact vs. opinion. Then I usually make up my own mind.
But, I can see validitly in this request. I recently bought a bumper and only a handful of poeple on this board liked it (not a mainstream) a lot did not for many reasons. If I had some factual information about it bending like a pipe cleaner in an accident, I might have reconsidered.
I'm trusting natural selection to take me out when it's time.
Wow! You guys really are old 20" is out and 22" are in. Geez...
Schattenjager:
I thought your question was something like this. Did this guy buy an after market bumper, with the assumption that it would crush everything in its path? And, if so, where did he get this idea? Did it come from some company rep., the shop he bought it from, friends, magazines...? Did this give him a false sense of security? Seriously, who knows?
I think most people are defending the purchase of any of the bumpers mentioned. There's no doubt they offer more than a stock bumper or that flimsy brush bar that I have. Regardless of the bumper, expect damage when you hit something like a moose or caribou or whatever it was.
Peace
20" is out and 22" are in. Geez...Schattenjager:
I thought your question was something like this. Did this guy buy an after market bumper, with the assumption that it would crush everything in its path? And, if so, where did he get this idea? Did it come from some company rep., the shop he bought it from, friends, magazines...? Did this give him a false sense of security? Seriously, who knows?
I think most people are defending the purchase of any of the bumpers mentioned. There's no doubt they offer more than a stock bumper or that flimsy brush bar that I have. Regardless of the bumper, expect damage when you hit something like a moose or caribou or whatever it was.
Peace
