Finally got the differential I wanted.

Mike_Rupp

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
3,604
0
Mercer Island, WA
Very cool that a "new" avenue has been brought to the states regarding these old Rovers, especially the vague knowledge that a CDL traction aide is available. Props to you hunting one of these down and bringing it to the table

However, there's no way in hell I would drop that kind of dough on a limited slip. In the end, it's still a limited slip. You can claim you're "ask[ing] my Rover to do different things than most", but I just can't justify any discernible benefits of any limited slip aside from the race track.

This "new" avenue has been explored long ago. Expedition Exchange carried Quaife diffs a long time ago. I'm guessing that only a few eccentric guys like Kennith with special requirements bought them.

I'd love having a lockable limited slip center diff, but the thought of taking out a transfer case, not to mention the expense, and the thought of having to flip a little lever over doesn't bother me so much.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
you need to edit that and remove all the emotional sales pitch and meaningless words like "better"

Just the facts son, that's how you make your point.

I know that.

I'm not really making a point, and I'm not selling anything. I was trying to keep it simple, with regard to the question of why it might be "better" than other options.

It just ended up long because I wasn't paying attention.

There shouldn't be an argument between Quaife and Ashcroft. Either should be a fine choice.

The one I bought is not "better" than an Ashcroft. There's nothing at all wrong with an Ashcroft. My reasons for going with the Quaife had absolutely nothing to do with Ashcroft quality or performance. I really like Ashcroft. This showed up at my door with a set of Ashcroft gears, and it's going to spin Ashcroft axles.

Quaife is just another option. I pointed out that they exist largely because of racing and factory vehicles. I also pointed out why people choose that brand in other communities. There's not much else to say about them. Few people that buy them even understand how the damned things work, and fifty posts like my long one wouldn't be enough to drive the point home.

As for the Truetrac, things are a bit different.

This isn't a matter of clutches versus gears, or locker vs unlocker. You've got three differentials using the same technology, here, and two of them are built a hell of a lot better than the other option.

Turbodave is correct. With a wheel in the air, a torque biasing differential can't help you by itself. Now, you can count bias figures between the models all you want, but when you end up in that situation, it really doesn't matter much. The wheel in the air will spin, and you won't move very much. There's a bit of load built in, but not enough to overcome that.

The trick is to grab the lifted wheel with the brakes. Traction control will do it, or your left foot will do it. Either result is the same. Grab the wheel, and you get the transfer, but it's still no locker.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Very cool that a "new" avenue has been brought to the states regarding these old Rovers, especially the vague knowledge that a CDL traction aide is available. Props to you hunting one of these down and bringing it to the table

However, there's no way in hell I would drop that kind of dough on a limited slip. In the end, it's still a limited slip. You can claim you're "ask[ing] my Rover to do different things than most", but I just can't justify any discernible benefits of any limited slip aside from the race track.

Credit Ashcroft for making the center known to me and discussing options, as well as Lucky 8 for making it happen.

As for torque biasing versus lockers, I just want different performance than most here. I'd like a little more traction all the time, rather than a lot more traction some of the time.

A selectable locker just isn't right for this vehicle.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Racer X

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2012
48
0
NYC
...but believe if you have a wheel in the air, it will spin out the free wheel[snip]
Ding ding ding!

I have a Quaife ATB diff going into my SHO, and if I hit a curb and get a wheel up, the airborne wheel will free spin until it's on the ground again. As said, these are great on the track/ tarmac, but I'm curious to see how it'd perform off road.
 

jafir

Well-known member
May 4, 2011
1,628
0
Northwest Arkansas
Ding ding ding!

I have a Quaife ATB diff going into my SHO, and if I hit a curb and get a wheel up, the airborne wheel will free spin until it's on the ground again. As said, these are great on the track/ tarmac, but I'm curious to see how it'd perform off road.

It would probably do pretty well on a D2 or newer P38. H1 hummers have torsen style differentials, and use the traction control to grab the spinning wheel.
 

turbodave

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2008
325
3
KY
I totally agree that a D2 with a quaife should be very interesting. That it doesn't open completely will make it a lot better on overall performance when matched with traction contol.
 

Beagle Bones

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2010
325
0
Nashville
Kenneth, SERIOUSLY!!! I preferred it more when you were pitching a used belt. Something that you had known for years. That thread made me laugh. Now, well you come off like a narcissist. I've known my fare share. Please don't take this as a criticsm, just a moment for growth if you will. To say that you use/ask (I forget which as there were way too many words in your post) different things from your truck than most makes you sound silly. Clearly you aren't racing this truck in any manner as you stated the lack of power and so on. At the end of the day you have (what I deem, as I'm not as knowledgeable on Quafie LSD's as you clearly made it clear to everyone that you are) a limited slip diff. Good luck with that.
I'm certain that our paths will cross eventually at some rally or ride and you'll tell me and everyone who will listen how phenomenal and unique your truck is, and that's great. I'll sip my average to above average beers and listen. As we all know the truth is in the pudding as they say. I look forward to seeing this MOST amazing diff in action. I hope you get years of enjoyment from your special diff purchase. At the end of the day it's just a diff, NOT the most spectacular belt a man could ever own.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Ding ding ding!

I have a Quaife ATB diff going into my SHO, and if I hit a curb and get a wheel up, the airborne wheel will free spin until it's on the ground again. As said, these are great on the track/ tarmac, but I'm curious to see how it'd perform off road.

They do pretty much the same thing off road. You get better throttle control of all four tires in dirt, gravel, snow, and sand; especially at speed. You'll be open if you lift a tire without traction control, so they can be a bit skittish on solid axles.

You can't always be fast enough to drag the brakes when needed, and the handbrake on a Rover is pretty much an on/off switch even without the ratchet, so it's all about throttle modulation.

On trails, so long as you stay out of knee-deep mud and rock gardens, torque biasing differentials will get you right past the stuff that stops you with open differentials. You'll have that last ten feet of hill that warranted a winch before, and if you work the brakes, you'll be able to follow locked vehicles, but you won't be able to keep up with them.

I think they are going to work well on the DII. It's got the right temperament, and they've worked well on similar vehicles I've used.

I'll probably fix the traction control since it will work well with them, but that damned modulator is still in my way. I want an air filter there. Maybe I can move it. I don't know. I'll get around to it eventually.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Kenneth, SERIOUSLY!!! I preferred it more when you were pitching a used belt. Something that you had known for years. That thread made me laugh. Now, well you come off like a narcissist. I've known my fare share. Please don't take this as a criticsm, just a moment for growth if you will. To say that you use/ask (I forget which as there were way too many words in your post) different things from your truck than most makes you sound silly. Clearly you aren't racing this truck in any manner as you stated the lack of power and so on. At the end of the day you have (what I deem, as I'm not as knowledgeable on Quafie LSD's as you clearly made it clear to everyone that you are) a limited slip diff. Good luck with that.
I'm certain that our paths will cross eventually at some rally or ride and you'll tell me and everyone who will listen how phenomenal and unique your truck is, and that's great. I'll sip my average to above average beers and listen. As we all know the truth is in the pudding as they say. I look forward to seeing this MOST amazing diff in action. I hope you get years of enjoyment from your special diff purchase. At the end of the day it's just a diff, NOT the most spectacular belt a man could ever own.

My truck is not spectacular at all. It's maintained better than most. That's it's only distinctive characteristic, though. I've done some wiring work and standardization, but that's pretty much it. Most of the time, I'm outclassed on trails.

As for asking different things of a car, I think favoring long, unfortunate paths rather than overly difficult trails qualifies the statement.

Is it not the case that most here enjoy regular difficult trail rides? Is it not the case that they modify their vehicles with those practices in mind? Perhaps I've missed something over the years.

As for crossing paths, you'll come across a magical coat-hanger that grants you any wish sooner than you'll encounter me at a Rover event. I've never attended one.

Hmm... Narcissistic...

No, I wouldn't go that far. I'd go for exceptionally prideful and occasionally self-depreciating in such a manner as to reverse the effect and compliment myself as a result. I'll never deny my arrogance.

I was born that way. I've absolutely been a boastful, contrary person my whole life. I'm the sort that will fuck with a person I've just met, for the sole purpose of watching their reaction.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Oh to hell with it. I ended up posting something long again explaining the differential. LOL

Edit. I'll try anyway:

To put it simply, the Truetrac uses the same technology. This isn't anything super-advanced. The Ashcroft ATB is essentially the same thing as the Quaife at a lower price.

This kind of differential is certainly not the best for dedicated trail use. People often fit them in the front combined with a Detroit in the rear, though, and that's a great use for them. They are also good for utility crews, ranchers, some military vehicles, various racing cars, and people who compete in certain off-pavement events.

It's when you get really serious and focused that these fall short, such as frequent use of difficult trails. Other options are available for those who want better performance on trails. Ashcroft offers a locker that people seem to like quite a bit, and you've always got ARB and Detroit.

A number of clutch-based limited slip differentials are available, as well. Those behave differently. The have the advantage of always giving you something whether you lift a tire or not, as well as the capability to be easily adjusted to suit individual preference, but they require more maintenance, and sometimes their advantages don't work in your favor.

I like this sort of thing because I need something that works all the time, rather than something that I'll use so rarely it won't work when I flip damned the switch. I don't seek out deep mud and tall rocks. I try to avoid such obstacles.

Cheers,

Kennith
 
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jafir

Well-known member
May 4, 2011
1,628
0
Northwest Arkansas
Oh to hell with it. I ended up posting something long again explaining the differential. LOL

To put it simply, the Truetrac uses the same technology. This isn't anything super-advanced.

Cheers,

Kennith

a few years back I had a miata with a torsen style rear end. It would off road better than any miata I've ever seen.
 

Beagle Bones

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2010
325
0
Nashville
I've absolutely been a boastful, contrary person my whole life. I'm the sort that will fuck with a person I've just met, for the sole purpose of watching their reaction.

Cheers,

Kennith


It sounds like we'd get long swimmingly, BUT before you get all wet in the nether regions I'm spoken for. I already have an internet connection with a South African. I've been assured that the next check they send will clear and cover the small losses I incurred and I'll be able to see them.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
It sounds like we'd get long swimmingly, BUT before you get all wet in the nether regions I'm spoken for. I already have an internet connection with a South African. I've been assured that the next check they send will clear and cover the small losses I incurred and I'll be able to see them.

I don't date anyway. Don't worry. It's not you, it's me.:rofl:

The post above has been updated with a few reasons why someone might like a differential like this, and some reasons why they might not like one.

I have a tendency to be a bit long-winded when exposed to a keyboard, and if I don't come back later to be sure it's good before I post it, you see the sort of nonsense I wrote on the first page of this thread.

Time disappears, words go everywhere, and I almost always finish on a different subject than the one that prompted the post. I need one of these differentials in my brain. I've got no traction at all up there.

Cheers,

Kennith