Got Wood?
- Thread starter Nomar
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garrett said:
So Garrett, what would you rather have: plastic stuff that will ultimately end up in a landfill or take those oil by-products and flare them off? I'm curious. Back in the day, refineries would just flare off some of the gases, but now they are using those by-products to make some plastics. I think the latter scenario is better.
It's not too highRoverlady said:Um, except for that edge on the side of the "mountain" right?!
. I hate the confined feeling of guard-rail edges and kids are just going to jump off and climb all over anyway...I agree , better use of plastics, I just dont want it on my yard!
i not familiar enough with these products to make an educated guess as to what is "better".
hell i am wearing a Patagonia vest made from recycled plastics, so i am cool with it. i just don't want my deck made of the shit. does that make me a hypocrite?
it would be great if they would not mix the two products (wood fibers and plastics) so that they would break down when they were thrown out.
i think you know more about it, so i would take your word for it.
hell i am wearing a Patagonia vest made from recycled plastics, so i am cool with it. i just don't want my deck made of the shit. does that make me a hypocrite?
it would be great if they would not mix the two products (wood fibers and plastics) so that they would break down when they were thrown out.
i think you know more about it, so i would take your word for it.
The article I linked earlier made that point about the degradation of the product after years of use. The fact that they are using discarded wood products is great, but wood could break down on it's own. So I guess the beef is with the combination of the two materials. All recycled plastic decking would be better?
Maybe Patagonia can start making some Synchilla deck materials!! I'd be all for that!
Maybe Patagonia can start making some Synchilla deck materials!! I'd be all for that!
garrett said:
I'm not saying you are a hypocrit. I got the impression that plastic lumber is being viewed as some sort of evil, bad for the environment product.
My point is that while trex isn't going to be as nice as redwood, it is a good product for the environment. At a very minimum, it delays the cycle of going to a landfill.
As far as mixing goes, there's not much of a choice. The plastic isn't strong enough to support the load compared to lumber and wood fiber and all of the other fillers need some glue to be able to hold it together.
the "evil", if there is any, would be the treated lumber that is so widely used. hard not to use it though. not one piece of it is allowed here on the farm.
We have used salt-treated lumber for random projects at our camp before...is that the same thing to which you are referring Garrett?
do you mean metal salts? if so then yes. pressure treated lumber is full of active carcinogens. yes poisons. no they will not kill you, but long term exposure is not a good thing and not to mention what happens to those poisons once they enter the ground, water, etc. pressure treated lumber contains chromium and arsenic. but since we use it all over the place it must be ok. haha.
Yeah, like we have chemical mattresses, etc?
I certainly believe that all the toxins surrounding us are a culprit...but it's hard to convince other people of that. I know after we moved into our new house (it was spec built...we found it after construction but were the first owners) Ivan had all kinds of allergies. I'm certain the finish on the hw floors and the paint and everything else combined were the reason. It's a little better now, but still worse than some places.
I know nothing about lumber and treatment, so that's why I wondered. How then, do you preserve wood at all? Are there non-chemical alternatives for stains/finish?
I certainly believe that all the toxins surrounding us are a culprit...but it's hard to convince other people of that. I know after we moved into our new house (it was spec built...we found it after construction but were the first owners) Ivan had all kinds of allergies. I'm certain the finish on the hw floors and the paint and everything else combined were the reason. It's a little better now, but still worse than some places.
I know nothing about lumber and treatment, so that's why I wondered. How then, do you preserve wood at all? Are there non-chemical alternatives for stains/finish?
well some countries do not allow the use of pressure treated lumber in residential uses. ie. decks, etc. and the CDC will straight up tell you that contact with it should be limited.
and of course NEVER use it where animals will come into contact with it. that includes feeding rooms, bins, etc. of course you know you will never see barns or the such using it. least they shouldn't! all it takes is a horse chewing on it and things can get ugly very fast.
i mean look at how long fence post lasts and they are in direct contact with the soil and moisture. some woods of course are less likely to be affected by fungus, moisture and termites. locust for one will last 50+ years easy when in direct contact with the soil. but people don't want to pay the money for locust posts anymore.
i pulled out dozens of them last year at the farm in MD and they were close to 60 years old. they sure do make AMAZING firewood though.
i'm just not sold on it i suppose. my parents used plenty of it as retaining walls at their house in PA that was built in 1987. about 10 years later the walls were completely rotted and falling in. i've seen it far too often.
it's hard to justify the use of redwood/cedar in some applications due to the costs. i am certain there are less hazardous stains out there that can be used, but i am not all that familiar with them.
the walkway/deck that i built with my father at their house in 1990 does not have one ounce of treated lumber and it looks great. power washed it twice since then to keep the moss off and that's it. even the 6x6s that are in the ground are in great shape.
we have a portable saw mill here and all the fence boards and posts are made from old timber on the property.
and of course NEVER use it where animals will come into contact with it. that includes feeding rooms, bins, etc. of course you know you will never see barns or the such using it. least they shouldn't! all it takes is a horse chewing on it and things can get ugly very fast.
i mean look at how long fence post lasts and they are in direct contact with the soil and moisture. some woods of course are less likely to be affected by fungus, moisture and termites. locust for one will last 50+ years easy when in direct contact with the soil. but people don't want to pay the money for locust posts anymore.
i pulled out dozens of them last year at the farm in MD and they were close to 60 years old. they sure do make AMAZING firewood though.
i'm just not sold on it i suppose. my parents used plenty of it as retaining walls at their house in PA that was built in 1987. about 10 years later the walls were completely rotted and falling in. i've seen it far too often.
it's hard to justify the use of redwood/cedar in some applications due to the costs. i am certain there are less hazardous stains out there that can be used, but i am not all that familiar with them.
the walkway/deck that i built with my father at their house in 1990 does not have one ounce of treated lumber and it looks great. power washed it twice since then to keep the moss off and that's it. even the 6x6s that are in the ground are in great shape.
we have a portable saw mill here and all the fence boards and posts are made from old timber on the property.
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frickjp
Guest
roverover said:
Gotta' disagree there. The deck around my folks pool is made of Trex when it first came out. It's all 2x6 decking, as are the railing tops. It's been out in the Caribbean sun in heavy traffic for 13 years, wearing well. On a really hot day, it used to smell like plastic milk jugs, but that stopped a couple years ago.
That said, I'd never use it, nor would my folks use it again. They built a deck at their summer home using epi, it's incredible stuff. Oil it once a year, and it is hard as nails.
garrett said:
They require the plates on a house to be pressure treated wood here or you will not pass inspection.
My father in law works for a building supply company and he mentioned that they have changed the way lumber is pressure treated. I think it had something to do with no longer using arsenic or something like that but I am not sure? Anyone know if the new way they pressure treat wood is any better health wise?
that would be fine, since there is no way you will come into contact with it. play equipment, decks and such would not make sense.
you have any idea when this change took place? everything up until pretty recently (year or so) was inorganic arsenic.
you have any idea when this change took place? everything up until pretty recently (year or so) was inorganic arsenic.
I built my front porch deck w/TREX. The stuff is great! Not cheap but worth it. I've built 3 decks now with the stuff, no complaints.
Don't use treated lumber. It warps, it's full of moisture, you have to use galvy nails/fasteners and some builders I know say they will only use stainless fasteners - expensive! Treated lumber has been "updated", now it has TONS of copper in it! That's why it's a little more expensive than it used to be.
Don't use treated lumber. It warps, it's full of moisture, you have to use galvy nails/fasteners and some builders I know say they will only use stainless fasteners - expensive! Treated lumber has been "updated", now it has TONS of copper in it! That's why it's a little more expensive than it used to be.
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D Chapman
Guest
I did not read the thread. But, I'm sure it was mentioned. The plastic shit is awesome. I had it on a deck and a porch. A 15 minute pressure wash twice a year, and the shit looks brand new.
Never had a problem with the shit.
Never had a problem with the shit.