Gun Control

[AbnMike]

Good on ya, personally I could not do it.

If I were still in the military I wouldn't think twice against an enemy but not a civilian.

Wait - so this guy attacks you from behind, and you struggle. You have no idea of his intentions, nor would you really care, but you're saying if you happened to be armed, and this dude gets the best of you and is bashing your head into the ground, or choking the life out of you - you're not pulling that gun and shooting him 5 times in the belly because he's unarmed?

I'm calling Shenanigans.

 

[AbnMike]

I like what kennith posted.

If you really think about it, pro gun and anti gun violence people (not gun nuts and anti gun extremists) want the same thing. Responsible people acting responsible with a gun. The NRA used to want that as well. The pro gun and anti gun violence people most likely could settle a lot of shit.
.

Aren't responsible people acting responsible with guns already? All how many tens of millions of them? What's another law going to do to make them more responsible than they already are?

It's the criminals who aren't being responsible, and they already don't follow laws, which is why they are criminals.

 

[brian4d]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/WV379084djs" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Since we're talking about fighting power.

 

[seventyfive]

Wait - so this guy attacks you from behind, and you struggle. You have no idea of his intentions, nor would you really care, but you're saying if you happened to be armed, and this dude gets the best of you and is bashing your head into the ground, or choking the life out of you - you're not pulling that gun and shooting him 5 times in the belly because he's unarmed?

I'm calling Shenanigans.

i know you do not possess the ability to believe me, but i would never be armed unless hunting.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ok85BmPyl_I" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[seventyfive]

Aren't responsible people acting responsible with guns already? All how many tens of millions of them? What's another law going to do to make them more responsible than they already are?

It's the criminals who aren't being responsible, and they already don't follow laws, which is why they are criminals.

the latest school shooter purchased his weapon legally. he was not a criminal until he fired the first round. your argument regarding only criminals act irresponsible is no longer relevant.

 

[brian4d]

i know you do not possess the ability to believe me, but i would never be armed unless hunting.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ok85BmPyl_I" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Cult Classic.

 

[AbnMike]

the latest school shooter purchased his weapon legally. he was not a criminal until he fired the first round. your argument regarding only criminals act irresponsible is no longer relevant.

Rapists aren't rapists until they rape.

Bank robbers aren't bank robbers until they rob a bank.

Criminals aren't criminals until they actually commit a crime.

Also your high-falutin' statement about not using a firearm on an attacker isn't from some sense of benevolence, it's because you don't carry firearms. I wouldn't use a Space Shuttle on an attacker, either. Or an axe. Or a torque wrench. I'm not in the habit of having any of those on me.

However if I were attacked with a gun on me, not using it to save my own life would be incredibly fucking stupid. Same as not picking up an ax if one were available when attacked.

I'm betting if you were attacked in the woods while hunting with a rifle on you, and that attacker was about to dash your brains on a rock, you're reaching for that gun, and it ain't to butt-stroke the attacker either.

Or maybe not. Doesn't really matter to me, your life.

 

[seventyfive]

so now you are suggesting pre-crime intent? anyone has the potential to be a criminal so what are you suggesting? everyone is a criminal?

i do not understand your logic.

the last school shooter bought his firearm legally. he was not a criminal when he purchased it. therefore a legal gun owner used his firearm to perform a criminal act.

so are you suggesting better background checks and limiting one's ability to purchase a firearm legally?

or are you saying everyone should be allowed to purchase a firearm legally THEN let them perform a criminal act?

 

[AbnMike]

so now you are suggesting pre-crime intent? anyone has the potential to be a criminal so what are you suggesting? everyone is a criminal?

i do not understand your logic.

the last school shooter bought his firearm legally. he was not a criminal when he purchased it. therefore a legal gun owner used his firearm to perform a criminal act.

so are you suggesting better background checks and limiting one's ability to purchase a firearm legally?

or are you saying everyone should be allowed to purchase a firearm legally THEN let them perform a criminal act?

My fucking god. If you guys would just stop thinking anyone who is Pro 2A must also be a goddamned moron we might be able to get somewhere.

I'm pointing out that all these laws and safe requirements and registration requirements and any other thing you want to impose on gun ownership will only affect one class of people: the law abiding.

If someone is going to commit a crime, no law is going to stop them.

You're right. This guy bought his guns legally. My point is proven. When he bought his guns he was law abiding. He did what he was required to do. He was also planning on killing every fucking body. No law would have stopped that.

When he decided to use his gun on someone else he became non-law abiding. Not before. Up to the point he pulled the trigger he had not committed a crime. At any point he could have walked away from his plan. At any point until he pulled the trigger.

What is this magic law or piece of legislation that is going to be able to stop someone from crossing the line into criminality?

Cho bought his two tiny 9mm and .22 handguns 2 months before he shot 32 people. At the time he owned them he was law abiding.

When he started killing 32 students he became a criminal. He decided he was no longer going to abide by any law.


So what law, what piece of legislation, what regulation, is going to stop someone who is intent on killing people from doing so?

A: Nothing. Nothing will.

So what I am saying is that all these laws and regulations and any other requirements only affect people who aren't going to break the law anyway. It's another hurdle for them to go through, another fiver out of their wallet, another 2 hours off work to go to the registration police or whatever.

Meanwhile the criminal will a: do the same and still kill people or b: skip all the bullshit and get their gun on the black market.

 

[seventyfive]

What is this magic law or piece of legislation that is going to be able to stop someone from crossing the line into criminality?

Cho bought his two tiny 9mm and .22 handguns 2 months before he shot 32 people. At the time he owned them he was law abiding.

maybe, just maybe, when the police is called over thirty times a person is put on a list???????

are you for or against the government putting you on a list if you have the police called multiple times?

So what law, what piece of legislation, what regulation, is going to stop someone who is intent on killing people from doing so?

none. i am ignorant to background checks and laws so maybe there are laws in place that should have prevented him purchasing a firearm? if in fact there is a law that should have prevented it then everyone in that chain is guilty of dereliction. remember what happened to us if we were charged with dereliction of duty under the UCMJ?

 

[seventyfive]

Meanwhile the criminal will a: do the same and still kill people or b: skip all the bullshit and get their gun on the black market.

we are not talking about criminals!!!!!!!!!! you pro gun extremists always resort to this rationale.

we are talking about someone purchasing a firearm legally, though facts show he should not been able to do so. what do we do to prevent that from happening???????????

we get nowhere when you deviate from this. criminals are criminals, lock them the fuck up. drop them off in the middle of the north atlantic. i do not care.

what do we do to prevent a known shit head from legally purchasing a weapon?

 

[brian4d]

we are not talking about criminals!!!!!!!!!! you pro gun extremists always resort to this rationale.

we are talking about someone purchasing a firearm legally, though facts show he should not been able to do so. what do we do to prevent that from happening???????????

we get nowhere when you deviate from this. criminals are criminals, lock them the fuck up. drop them off in the middle of the north atlantic. i do not care.

what do we do to prevent a known shit head from legally purchasing a weapon?

If the system failed with all the redundancy it had in the Florida shooting I'd argue there is little to nothing we can do. Hate to be the pessimist but that whole situation was nothing short of ridiculous. If you see something say something, Police called 37 times, FBI notified twice and a call to the police department from a family member spelled out what was going to happen. Even the Sheriff didn't enter the building and they were there. Could it get any worse? Folks, adding one more level of redundancy ain't gonna help sorry to say.

 

[seventyfive]

If the system failed with all the redundancy it had in the Florida shooting I'd argue there is little to nothing we can do. Hate to be the pessimist but that whole situation was nothing short of ridiculous. If you see something say something, Police called 37 times, FBI notified twice and a call to the police department from a family member spelled out what was going to happen. Even the Sheriff didn't enter the building and they were there. Could it get any worse? Folks, adding one more level of redundancy ain't gonna help sorry to say.

not talking about redundacy.

talking about accountability. look at it this way. shit head was able to legally purchase a firearm. some one or several people did not do their job. where are the criminal charges?

i don't drink anymore, but let us say i went to a friend's house and got drunk. i drive home and hit someone. my friend may be on the hook for litigation.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclop...-lawsuits-over-alcohol-related-accidents.html


meanwhile someone did not do their job and 17 children were murdered. where are the criminal charges?

 

[seventyfive]

instead of holding people accountable....

TAKE ALL THE GUNS AWAY!!!!

GIVE EVERYONE GUNS TO DEFEND AGAINST THE ONES WITH GUNS!!!!!

 

[brian4d]

not talking about redundacy.

talking about accountability. look at it this way. shit head was able to legally purchase a firearm. some one or several people did not do their job. where are the criminal charges?

i don't drink anymore, but let us say i went to a friend's house and got drunk. i drive home and hit someone. my friend may be on the hook for litigation.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclop...-lawsuits-over-alcohol-related-accidents.html


meanwhile someone did not do their job and 17 children were murdered. where are the criminal charges?

Mike,

I have not read anywhere the FFL holder broke any laws or didn't do their job correctly. And yes, it is one aspect of redundancy whether you see it that way or not. Your whole stance stinks of quick justice. To the gallows pole! How is that any better than how the killer operated? That's simply not how the American justice system works. Cool and collective minds always prevail.

 

[Blue]

the latest school shooter purchased his weapon legally. he was not a criminal until he fired the first round. your argument regarding only criminals act irresponsible is no longer relevant.

This is actually incorrect. Crazybird dipshit Cruz was a criminal when he planned the school shooting and had the capability to carry it out. He also likely purchased the AR with the intent to use it to shoot up the school. Also a criminal act.

 

[AbnMike]

This is actually incorrect. Crazybird dipshit Cruz was a criminal when he planned the school shooting and had the capability to carry it out. He also likely purchased the AR with the intent to use it to shoot up the school. Also a criminal act.

So if I plan to do something, but don't do it, I'm guilty of doing it anyway?

Sounds like thought crime to me. At what point does it become the crime? When the idea is first planted in my head? If I draw it out on a piece of paper?

As far as the other comments about people not doing their jobs: exactly. So what other piece of legislation is going to force everyone to do their jobs every time?

If people want to prosecute the local PD or FBI who did not follow up on the threats, I have no problem with that.

What I have a problem with is someone proposing that I, as a responsible gun owner, need to get another test or check or certification or whatever else has been proposed over and over again, because if I, as a responsible gun owner do those things, then we will stop mass shootings.

Meanwhile if we simply govern all vehicles to 45 mph (35 mph if carrying children) we'll save tens of thousands of lives. Because: children.

 

[seventyfive]

This is actually incorrect. Crazybird dipshit Cruz was a criminal when he planned the school shooting and had the capability to carry it out. He also likely purchased the AR with the intent to use it to shoot up the school. Also a criminal act.

then those who failed to do their job should be accomplices.

granted none of us practice criminal law. but you get what i am gettin at.


#twatdribble

 

[WNYDiscoIIErik]

I like reading this thread while taking a poo. And I just noticed my wife left a shotgun on the bathroom counter, again.

Does she know you're in there?

 

[seventyfive]

What I have a problem with is someone proposing that I, as a responsible gun owner, need to get another test or check or certification or whatever else has been proposed over and over again, because if I, as a responsible gun owner do those things, then we will stop mass shootings.

as do i. shit is happening and not being resolved which jeapordizes my right to keep my hunting rifle....possibly. so let's start holding people accountable.