I Hate Torx Bolts

robot808

robot808

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2009
110
0
Elmhurst,IL
So, I bought my 96 Disco SD not long ago. I plan on having my kids in quite a bit. I have a front facing car seat and a booster.
Anyway, one of the rear seat belt receivers was being held together by duct tape. I ordered a replacement (the right rear that has two receivers connected together) and went to install it. It looked easy enough, 1 Torx bolt. I soaked it in PB Blaster and promptly stripped it.
So, I decided before drilling it all the way through, to try a bolt extractor. I broke off in the bolt, so now I can't even drill it out because the metal of the broken extractor is too hard.
I then tried cutting a groove in the top of the bolt and hitting it axially with a hammer and chisel. It didn't budge.
I tried to attack from underneath, by getting a wrench on the nut from the bottom. It is welded to the bracket.
So what next? Cut off the nut with a cut-off wheel? Any better ideas?
Such a nightmare...
__________________
 
robot808

robot808

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2009
110
0
Elmhurst,IL
Thanks Mason, I am not sure that drilling the head off will help much. My drill won't dent the metal of the extractor. I spt a really long time trying.
I was thinking maybe cut the welds off of the nut that is under the car and see if I can turn the nut?
Or should I just start cuttin as much shit as I can cut?
 
K

kbeefy

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2008
86
0
alaska
I'd try to cut as little as possible. Being from a jeep background, I Despise Torx, but have a fair bit of experience with them.

Backing up a bit, this is what I'd have done....


first, make sure screw head is clear of debris, paint, rust, cheesy-poofs, whatever.
Fit torx bit to screw. give it a really good whack. Not a tap, mind you, hit that thing like you want to break some corrosion loose. About like your driving a nail.
If you suspect it's siezed, apply heat. Ideally to the nut, but heat anywhere helps. Kroil or PB Blaster is good at this time as well.
If you applied oil, let it set for a while.
If you applied heat, get to work immediatly, while it's still hot.
Lean on your turning device. I like a 3/8 ratchet and bit. Extension if nescesary.
By lean I mean press down, hard. Gradually apply torque (lefty loosey, usually).
Watch for the bit to lever out of the screw. If you see it trying to climb out of the screw, repeat the whack, oil and heat cycle.

If (or when) it strips, theres a few choices.

I've had good luck with vise-grips, when I can get on it. Try this before you drill, drilling weakens the head.
If you can get to the backside, oil and wire brush the threads. If it's really bad, you can grind the bolt down flush with the nutsert. Threads inside the fastener usually aren't that bad.

Now you.... broken off extracter. Carbide bit in a die grinder will cut through it, if thats what you want to do.
Another option.... get a nut and weld it to aformentioned Torx. Apply torque quickly, heat from welding does a great job of loosening stuck bolts.
 
jhmover

jhmover

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
5,571
3
California
Torx...I'm still wondering why my R380 has a friggin torx for the fill plug. I assume some retarded British engineer had a major brain fart.
 
nosivad_bor

nosivad_bor

Well-known member
Mar 27, 2004
6,060
63
Pittsburgh, PA
I love the torx bolts, they are way less likely to strip. I am not sure how the hell you managed to strip it, that's a hardened bolt. Did you use the wrong tool?

What is stripped, the threads or the torx socket?
 
ptschram

ptschram

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2004
21,955
50
In the shop doing the Lord's work one broken Rover
www.ptschram.com
The seat belt anchors (depending upon which one it is) are held to the sheetmetal by rivets. The bracket has a bolt that goes to the frame.

Drill the rivets out, cut the bolt, call Marty for replacement. Be happy.

I NEVER use extractors, I've broken almost every one I ever tried and they NEVER removed the broken bit. Since I started using left-hand drill bits,I'm 100% for removal of broken bits.
 
robot808

robot808

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2009
110
0
Elmhurst,IL
Mason,
Yeah, the problem is the extractor goes down deep into the bolt, so it's real trouble.

Rob, I used the right tool. I think that there is some major threadlock used or something. Even after using the right Torx bit and a breaker bar, I can't get the thing to budge with a hammer and chisel.

PT, what I am trying to replace is the two seat belt receivers that are on the PS of the cargo space in back. From what I can see, it is just the one bolt that is holding the bracket that holds both receivers. That bolt seems to run thru the body and then in to a bracket with a nut welded to it that is attached to the frame.
I have spent a few hours looking at it, working on it. Of course, I am new to this vehicle, so I will get back and look around for some rivets.
I have the replacment belts in hand. I think I will only need to replace fasteners.
I will never use an extractor again. That is my promise to you all.

kbeefy,
Good solid advice there. I am gonna roast that bitch up. I also like the nut welding idea. If you guys do not here back from me, I got my torch to close to the gas tank.:jumpfire:

Thanks to all for the ideas.
 
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D

David Despain

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2005
791
1
46
Salt Lick City Utah
liquid nitrogen is your friend. the extractor is much more brittle than the bolt. so cool the whole mess down to near absolute zero as you can with the liquid N2, then strike the extractor with a very sharp center punch and it should shatter. remove broken pieces and try a different approach to remove the bolt.

or just cut the head off remove seat belt and try to remove whats left of the bolt.
 
robot808

robot808

Well-known member
Aug 30, 2009
110
0
Elmhurst,IL
Oh, I get it. Thanks PT. Let me ask you, once I drill out the rivets (assuming I can get a drill in there), how do I refasten the replacement plate? Or use the old plate with a new nut and bolt?


(Please know that I am not doubting this is the right course of action, it is a genuine question. Sometimes it is hard to convey that on a forum.)
 
D

David Despain

Well-known member
Feb 24, 2005
791
1
46
Salt Lick City Utah
robot808 said:
David,
That's an interesting thought. Where would one procure said N2?
Thanks,
Click to expand...

http://www.uswelding.com/index.htm

http://www.airliquide.com/en/our-offer/products.html

any local welding supply house.

but really i think P.T.'s idea is the best here. you will be out far more if you go the fun freezing route, which can be dangerous if you are not familiar with liquid N2. it was more of a joke, although in the aerospace industry that is the standard way to remove broken reamers, taps, extractors etc. i have only used it a couple of times, but it was fun to play with. and those time it was the only way to accomplish the task at hand.
 
J

JohnB

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2007
2,295
12
Oregon
I run into stripped 12 points alot in the wrecking business. Not so many stripped torx but a few.

My method is an air hammer with a sharp chissel attached. Just go at it on the side of the top of the torx and make a good indent pushing counter clockwise. It will loosen.

Works everytime.

I hate stud extarctors. Agreed with PT left handed drills work better. I remember once on a BMW we had a broken stud in the head. Drilled it through inserted stud extarctor, stud extractor broke. I had to drill comepletely around the stud to remove it. Then weld the hole up with aluminum and retap for another studd. Total nightmare
 
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maxyedor

maxyedor

Well-known member
May 9, 2006
1,353
0
Do you have access to a welder? If so weld a hex-nut to the top and hit it with the impact. The heat will break the bolt free, the hex gives to a surface to turn with. For bonus points melt parafin on it right after welding, seeps in and loosens it all up.
 
ptschram

ptschram

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2004
21,955
50
In the shop doing the Lord's work one broken Rover
www.ptschram.com
For the love of God guys, let's see how complicated we cna make this alright?

CLearly, we need a flux capacitor.

The reason this happened si that the end of the bolt hangs out beneath the truck, gets rusted and when you try to turn it out, the rusted portion seizes up and then, it breaks.

Before starting a project like this, you really need to hose down the exposed portion so it won't seize up.
 
MUSKYMAN

MUSKYMAN

Well-known member
Apr 19, 2004
8,277
0
OverBarrington IL
ptschram said:
For the love of God guys, let's see how complicated we cna make this alright?

CLearly, we need a flux capacitor.

The reason this happened si that the end of the bolt hangs out beneath the truck, gets rusted and when you try to turn it out, the rusted portion seizes up and then, it breaks.

Before starting a project like this, you really need to hose down the exposed portion so it won't seize up.
Click to expand...


Paul is correct on this, I have dealt with a number of these seat belt replacements on rusty mid west trucks and now I go right to the bottom and wire wheel the crap outa the bolt and then soak it with kroil. Then I hit the top torx with a impact and they come right out.
 
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