Looking for the definitive Vortec swap thread

[Hans747]

Hey everyone!

I've been really interested in trying a vortec swap into a D1. And it seems that every month or two there's a pretty clean D1 with a fragged engine coming up for sale in the -$1000 range on CL. It looks like Marks 4wd offers a good adapter tranny adapter and motor mounts.

The only thing is that I have not been able to find is a good DIY write up on how to do the swap beyond pulling out and old engine and putting the new one in its place. Oh yeah, and stronger front suspension... I need help understanding the details of how to make the engine work with the rest of the truck. Fuel pump, dash, etc

Do any of you Disco nuts have some good links kicking around in your bookmarks? Thanks!

 

[fishEH]

Watching this.....

 

[p m]

Make yourself an account on D90 and look around.
There's a nearly-clean swap with either Gen III Vortec and 4L60E (or 4L80E?) or Gen IV Vortec and 6L80E (for both Defender and D1). Adapters are made for GM transmission to LT230, and the rest of "know how" is there. The outcome is fully OBD-2 compliant.

 

[shore2mntsNJ]

What do you mean by make yourself an account on D90? The subject interest me as well.

 

[p m]

... or simply search the D90 board for this subject.
It is by no means a cheap swap - all said and done, about $10k.

 

[jymmiejamz]

Defendersource.com It used to be d-90.com

 

[MM3846]

... or simply search the D90 board for this subject.
It is by no means a cheap swap - all said and done, about $10k.

i think thats WAAAYY high. you can get a running 5.3 with the entire wiring harness for less than a grand, another couple hundred for a 4l60e or nv4500. the most $$ you'll have in will be adapters for the tcase which is something like a few hundred bucks if i remember from the pirate thread. there really isnt much you need to splice together, use as much as the chevy harness as you can, get a couple important gauges and rely on a scangauge for the rest.

 

[Hans747]

I have to wonder what makes you think it will be so high? I was planning to stick with the stock tranny d1 tranny and just use the marks4wd adapter.
http://www.marks4wd.com/bell-housing-adaptors/land-rover/chevy-v6-v8-engines/mfk410a.html

They have motor mounts for another $200.

Where else is the cost hiding? I really want to know.

P.s. I'm not being sarcastic. If I start a swap I don't want to fall on my face halfway through.

 

[p m]

i think thats WAAAYY high. you can get a running 5.3 with the entire wiring harness for less than a grand, another couple hundred for a 4l60e or nv4500. the most $$ you'll have in will be adapters for the tcase which is something like a few hundred bucks if i remember from the pirate thread. there really isnt much you need to splice together, use as much as the chevy harness as you can, get a couple important gauges and rely on a scangauge for the rest.

Ignorance is bliss.

Will your engine computer work without transmission?
Will your ancillaries mate, or you have to use those that came with the donor engine?
Will your exhaust mate to the engine? (quick answer - no)
Will your cooling system work with the engine?
Will your driveshaft clear the engine and transmission oil pans?
Will your hood clear the intake?
Will the donor engine mate with the land rover engine mounts? (answer = no)
Will the donor engine weigh the same as original? (no it won't)

So you have to work very hard to make everything work together under that price tag.

Hans747 - my bet is that your stock ZF 4HP22 will last about ten stoplight takeoffs behind a 5.3 Vortec.

EDIT: consider this: I replaced a 68 Buick 350 in my jeep with a 72 Buick 350 a decade ago. The engine cost was $232. The total amount spent was more than a grand - this is using what I thought was exactly the same engine!

 

[Roving Beetle]

Figure on 3500$ if you do all the misc work yourself.

$6500-8k if you pay for it to be done.

I have a marks adapter - it's a good product. The stock ZF will hold for a while if you're easy on it. A Chevy 4.3 will have more power than a rover - cheaper parts etc and weigh a little less but be reasonable on torque so the trans will hold up far better.

If you use a Chevy trans and the marks transfer adapter you'll need all new drive shafts and more.

The v6 is cheaper too. You'll need the GM computer re-flashed for manual trans as the ZF is hydraulic and has no electronic controls. Make sure you get the shift cable adjustment correct or it will feel terrible.

So to sum up - unless you call Ashcroft and get a built ZF (or do it yourself, not easy in the states) go with a v6 or maybe a 4.8 and keep the power "low".

Doug

 

[MM3846]

Figure on 3500$ if you do all the misc work yourself.

$6500-8k if you pay for it to be done.

this sounds about right to me.

Ignorance is bliss.

Will your engine computer work without transmission?
Will your ancillaries mate, or you have to use those that came with the donor engine?
Will your exhaust mate to the engine? (quick answer - no)
Will your cooling system work with the engine?
Will your driveshaft clear the engine and transmission oil pans?
Will your hood clear the intake?
Will the donor engine mate with the land rover engine mounts? (answer = no)
Will the donor engine weigh the same as original? (no it won't)

meh, one of my really good friends does occasional side work (and i've been around at the shop enough to gain a good deal of knowledge) for a shop that deals solely in LSX swaps and tuning. the auto will need it's own TCU (which you get from the yard w the trans) and needs to work with an auto ECU from the motor, or you can trick the ECU to ignore it and run a full manual valve body among other things. NV4500 doesnt need a brain, and you can tell the ECU to ignore TPS inputs if you have an auto ECU.

accessories? why use the weird ass rover parts when you just bought one of the most popular engine platforms in the states? use LSX A/C, LSX PS- though it is a different pressure than the rover one, but you can change a pulley to fix that, LSX everything.

exhaust? of course not. but that isnt rocket science.

cooling system? fit the biggest radiator that will fit in the engine bay. done.

driveshaft? now that i think about it, i believe the front shaft wont clear with a 4l60e.. you need to use a 4l80. big whoop, now you have a better autobox anyway.

intake? yes. fit a car intake instead of a truck one if needed.

engine mounts? duh, but its still a v8.. you arent stuffing a LSX into a civic. easy.

weight? ok ya, so the rover motor is like 330lbs dry? you gain 2-250lbs with an iron block. but you also gain 150hp without a tune, and up to 1000hp if you feel like it. weight is a non issue.

 

[robertf]

They slapped a vortec sticker on a lot of engines. It's not really descriptive. I'd stick with the fireball v8


These threads pop up every few months because someone is looking for a cheaper alternative to the rv8. If that's the case, give up now. You can have one hell of a 4.6 or even a 5.0 with all the nickel and dime stuff your overlooking

 

[Hans747]

They slapped a vortec sticker on a lot of engines. It's not really descriptive. I'd stick with the fireball v8


These threads pop up every few months because someone is looking for a cheaper alternative to the rv8. If that's the case, give up now. You can have one hell of a 4.6 or even a 5.0 with all the nickel and dime stuff your overlooking

I appreciate the word of caution. I totally get what you're saying here, but that's not what I'm looking for. If am going to own an LR, it won't have that engine in it. Overweight for its power, unreliable, and expensive to repair is not the way I would like to go. It is the reason why these otherwise neat trucks lose so much value. When I look at Craigslist, I see nothing but a bunch of trucks where the engine is on its second headgasket and the owner has just given up because they are now chasing a no-spark symtpom for weeks. That's not for me. I would rather have something simple, predicable and run by a commonly understood engine management system.

 

[Hans747]

I have a marks adapter - it's a good product. The stock ZF will hold for a while if you're easy on it. A Chevy 4.3 will have more power than a rover - cheaper parts etc and weigh a little less but be reasonable on torque so the trans will hold up far better.
Doug

Hi Doug,
By chance, have you written up you build on this truck?

 

[stu454]

If this swap was so damned awesome, you wouldn't be able to swing your dick without hitting one.

 

[p m]

I would rather have something simple, predicable and run by a commonly understood engine management system.

You are describing a Lucas 14CUX or a GEMS motor nearly perfectly.
There isn't anything wrong with a second or a third head gasket job, as long as the block isn't cracked.

Doug - $3500 won't take you there even if you do all the work by yourself, unless you're trying to fit a beat-up 4.3 V6 to stock ZF box. With a 5.3/4(6)L80E, $3500 won't even buy you parts.

 

[Hans747]

OK, BACK ON TOPIC....

This thread isn't about discussing the merits of staying stock, or which engine you like better. It's about how to get GM engine into a D! and make it run.

So just to recap, we've already established

1. it's not worth it
2. it's a terrible idea
3. D1s already came with engines that fit neatly in place
4. Three headgasket jobs is a perfectly acceptable number
5. It will cost anywhere from $5 to $10,000 to do it

Those were all very interesting and arguably valid points, but they don't really move the subject of how to put a GM engine in a D1 forward at all. I'm trying to help people like myself learn more about how to do this swap. If you have done the job yourself and know firsthand how much it cost, GREAT! Let's hear about it. If all you have to offer is speculation on what it might cost, well, then you're just as uniformed as I am, and you're not really adding anyhting.

Again, if you have done this swap or know somewhere where I can learn more, please share that information.

 

[Hans747]

If this swap was so damned awesome, you wouldn't be able to swing your dick without hitting one.

Can't say that I've ever swung my dick and hit any car. My ass is another story: I did press a good full moon against the school bus window once when i was a kid.

 

[seventyfive]

These threads pop up every few months because someone is looking for a cheaper alternative to the rv8. If that's the case, give up now. You can have one hell of a 4.6 or even a 5.0 with all the nickel and dime stuff your overlooking

If this swap was so damn awesome, you wouldn't be able to swing your dick without hitting one.

the cost to properly tear down and re build a rover V8 is not that expensive. and if it is done right it should be fine. the problem is guys nickel and dime and cut corners on their trucks so they think by magically swapping a different engine in they will be worry free.
...and then they realize the actual cost to swap the engine versus the actual value of their clapped out truck.
neither of my engines leak a drop. i drive them like an idiot and i still havent blown one up. the rest of the drive line is a different story, but throwimng more power at it would just increase the amnount of repairs i make.

 

[stu454]

Can't say that I've ever swung my dick and hit any car. My ass is another story: I did press a good full moon against the school bus window once when i was a kid.

Hardy har. But my point still stands.

What are you after besides "Lookie lookie, I have a different engine than you!"?