Looking for the definitive Vortec swap thread

p m

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Apr 19, 2004
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OK, BACK ON TOPIC....

This thread isn't about discussing the merits of staying stock, or which engine you like better. It's about how to get GM engine into a D! and make it run.

So just to recap, we've already established

1. it's not worth it
2. it's a terrible idea
3. D1s already came with engines that fit neatly in place
4. Three headgasket jobs is a perfectly acceptable number
5. It will cost anywhere from $5 to $10,000 to do it

Those were all very interesting and arguably valid points, but they don't really move the subject of how to put a GM engine in a D1 forward at all. I'm trying to help people like myself learn more about how to do this swap. If you have done the job yourself and know firsthand how much it cost, GREAT! Let's hear about it. If all you have to offer is speculation on what it might cost, well, then you're just as uniformed as I am, and you're not really adding anyhting.

Again, if you have done this swap or know somewhere where I can learn more, please share that information.

Hans, in the very first post in this thread I suggested where to look for it. If you want me or somebody else google it for you, my apologies.
I don't know where you got your talking points (1) and (2), either. It is by no means a terrible idea, but whether it's worth "it" or not depends on how much of "it" is in your pocket.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
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North Carolina
Overweight for its power, unreliable, and expensive to repair is not the way I would like to go.

Wrong on all counts.

1: The engine has more than enough power for the vehicle to get out of it's own way, tow heavy loads, haul an unbelievable amount of gear, crawl up steep trails, exit on-ramps at sufficient speed, and pass on the highway. A Land Rover will blow the doors off many vehicles people live and work with daily.

You won't beat fast cars off the line, but you might be surprised at what happens once you get the hang of the tachometer. These aren't fast, but they aren't nearly as slow as people would have you believe. If that's not enough, it's very easy to pump these engines up; you just can't do it at Autozone, that's all.

2: Aside from a few bad apples, the engines are perfectly reliable when maintained properly. You'll pile hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of miles on a happy RV8. Change your fluids when you are supposed to do so (not when your "pa" says he used to do it), keep it clean, and you won't have any trouble beyond stupidity it may have endured when used by the previous owner.

3: They aren't expensive to repair. Parts are all over the damned place. They can be had new at various price points; from Genuine Land Rover to Asian imports, as well as used from reliable members of the community who take these things apart for a living. Some more popular parts even come rebuilt and ready to go.

It is the reason why these otherwise neat trucks lose so much value.

Wrong again. They lose value for the same reasons as any depreciating asset of high initial value. The first guy had money, and wanted to go new or go bust.

The second guy will always have money, because he wanted to save some, but he wouldn't be seen in a used car unless it was a damned good deal about which he could brag.

The third guy bought it below mid value, because that's how far it had to fall to hit his wallet.

The fourth guy is either the savior or the demon.

After that, you are left with people like yourself; shopping junk cars and complaining about reliability, that could be brought right back onto the table with a thorough service and proper maintenance after the fact.

There aren't enough buyers between these stages to affect the end result. That's where the main numbers come from. Profit in the used car industry comes largely from buying below a stage and selling as far into the dark wonderland above it as you can.

That's why my personal DII isn't worth more than any other on paper, even though it damned well should be, and would probably pull a bit of a premium if I sold it.

When I look at Craigslist, I see nothing but a bunch of trucks where the engine is on its second headgasket and the owner has just given up because they are now chasing a no-spark symtpom for weeks. That's not for me. I would rather have something simple, predicable and run by a commonly understood engine management system.

Then buy another vehicle, because what you see on Craigslist is yourself. You see people who thought they could steal a dream, and then found they weren't dressed for the occasion.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a Vortec... There's nothing wrong with wanting a fish in your nose, either. You need to realize what you're doing, though. You want one car, but you contend that the very heart of the beast is rubbish.

Damn. Fucking bolt a Rover body onto a Chevy frame and call it a day. For every part you replace, ten more are waiting in line with Land Rover stamped all over them.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

robertf

Well-known member
Jan 22, 2006
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. If you have done the job yourself and know firsthand how much it cost, GREAT! Let's hear about it. If all you have to offer is speculation on what it might cost, well, then you're just as uniformed as I am, and you're not really adding anyhting.

many of us here have owned other vehicles and done this type of swap before, so our speculation is way more informed than you are assuming.

Here is the list of problems that keep this from being a viable swap.

You swap a v8 with twice the torque in front of the ZF which is now a time bomb. Your vehicle is now unreliable. Now you need to swap a transmission to fix that.

You swap in a GM transmission. The transfercase front output doesn't clear the transmission. You could add a front carrier bearing, but that is unreliable and you want reliability. Time to swap in a GM transfercase.

So now you've swapped in your GM transfercase. Great, now you have an offset drive shaft. Unreliable, not streetable. Time to swap in a centered rear axle to fix that.

So you swap in a centered rear axle. Your upper A-arm won't fit. Now you need to redo the suspension with some kustom parts and swap in a front axle to match the rear.

Now you have to hack together the brakes from 3 different cars. Your suspension is made from a mail order catalog. The car handles like shit, the brakes never quite work right, every dash light is on, and you can't walk down to oreillys and simply tell them you need a XXXXXX for a discovery.

Or you could swap a 4.6 in it and enjoy the vehicle.

Of course the guy on D90 that swapped in the 6 speed and ls3 addressed all of these problems, the other kits do not. Any transmission other than the 6 speed is not worth considering, unless you want to drive a turd.
 

MM3846

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Feb 18, 2014
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LI, NY
the NV4500 is a dandy transmission. i'd use that if i didnt want to drop lots of money on a T56.
 

Tugela

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May 21, 2007
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Seattle
That's why my personal DII isn't worth more than any other on paper, even though it damned well should be, and would probably pull a bit of a premium if I sold it.

I'll give you $200 above KBB for your truck and throw in a fresh-caught coho salmon (whole), Seahawks ballcap, and a case of Hilliard's beer.

Consider it a favor. I've seen a couple photos of your DII's engine bay and it's so clean that no potential buyers in their right minds would touch that thing with a 3-foot breaker bar. No signs of any fluid leaks = everything has dripped out and the truck is for display purposes only.

I also agree with the suggestion to replace the factory engine with one from a 4.6 Range Rover with the same management system as the original. I had the good fortune to ride in a D90 recently whose owner had completed this swap. It went like hell. The performance payoff to pain-in-the-ass ratio of this option is about as high as it gets.
 

p m

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Of course the guy on D90 that swapped in the 6 speed and ls3 addressed all of these problems, the other kits do not. Any transmission other than the 6 speed is not worth considering, unless you want to drive a turd.
Pretty much exactly my point.

Funny how every once in a blue moon somebody shows up and wants "definitive" answers right off the bat. This is a rare case when there is a definitive answer, but the OP and chime-ons don't like it.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
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North Carolina
many of us here have owned other vehicles and done this type of swap before, so our speculation is way more informed than you are assuming.

Here is the list of problems that keep this from being a viable swap.

You swap a v8 with twice the torque in front of the ZF which is now a time bomb. Your vehicle is now unreliable. Now you need to swap a transmission to fix that.

You swap in a GM transmission. The transfercase front output doesn't clear the transmission. You could add a front carrier bearing, but that is unreliable and you want reliability. Time to swap in a GM transfercase.

So now you've swapped in your GM transfercase. Great, now you have an offset drive shaft. Unreliable, not streetable. Time to swap in a centered rear axle to fix that.

So you swap in a centered rear axle. Your upper A-arm won't fit. Now you need to redo the suspension with some kustom parts and swap in a front axle to match the rear.

Now you have to hack together the brakes from 3 different cars. Your suspension is made from a mail order catalog. The car handles like shit, the brakes never quite work right, every dash light is on, and you can't walk down to oreillys and simply tell them you need a XXXXXX for a discovery.

Or you could swap a 4.6 in it and enjoy the vehicle.

Of course the guy on D90 that swapped in the 6 speed and ls3 addressed all of these problems, the other kits do not. Any transmission other than the 6 speed is not worth considering, unless you want to drive a turd.

Precisely. That's a perfect explanation of the last statement in my post.

You can't draw a line and stop when you're doing things like this. Everything affects everything. This is absolutely not the sort of project to begin in an effort to get a junk Discovery back on the road.

If you want to do that, you fix the damned car.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

SGaynor

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2006
7,148
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Bristol, TN
If you have done the job yourself and know firsthand how much it cost, GREAT! Let's hear about it. If all you have to offer is speculation on what it might cost, well, then you're just as uniformed as I am, and you're not really adding anyhting.

Again, if you have done this swap or know somewhere where I can learn more, please share that information.

Looks like Kyd4Lyf is reincarnated...

Please don't jump in with a bunch of second hand opinions, I'm looking for actual first hand experience.

Has anyone used a real automatic locker (Detroit or any of the lunchbox lockers that work the same way) in the front of a Disco and how is it for daily driving?


http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=36736&highlight=front+detroit
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
I'll give you $200 above KBB for your truck and throw in a fresh-caught coho salmon (whole), Seahawks ballcap, and a case of Hilliard's beer.

Consider it a favor. I've seen a couple photos of your DII's engine bay and it's so clean that no potential buyers in their right minds would touch that thing with a 3-foot breaker bar. No signs of any fluid leaks = everything has dripped out and the truck is for display purposes only.

Make it a Boston Market gift card and a pack of those glass bottle Mountain Dews.:rofl:

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Roving Beetle

Well-known member
Well said.

many of us here have owned other vehicles and done this type of swap before, so our speculation is way more informed than you are assuming.

Here is the list of problems that keep this from being a viable swap.

You swap a v8 with twice the torque in front of the ZF which is now a time bomb. Your vehicle is now unreliable. Now you need to swap a transmission to fix that.

You swap in a GM transmission. The transfercase front output doesn't clear the transmission. You could add a front carrier bearing, but that is unreliable and you want reliability. Time to swap in a GM transfercase.

So now you've swapped in your GM transfercase. Great, now you have an offset drive shaft. Unreliable, not streetable. Time to swap in a centered rear axle to fix that.

So you swap in a centered rear axle. Your upper A-arm won't fit. Now you need to redo the suspension with some kustom parts and swap in a front axle to match the rear.

Now you have to hack together the brakes from 3 different cars. Your suspension is made from a mail order catalog. The car handles like shit, the brakes never quite work right, every dash light is on, and you can't walk down to oreillys and simply tell them you need a XXXXXX for a discovery.

Or you could swap a 4.6 in it and enjoy the vehicle.

Of course the guy on D90 that swapped in the 6 speed and ls3 addressed all of these problems, the other kits do not. Any transmission other than the 6 speed is not worth considering, unless you want to drive a turd.

And this is why I recommended a v6. Toss it in front of a decently solid ZF and it will be fine. That's where I got my $3500 budget from. No shafts to swap, minimal exhaust work, no radiator swap etc. pretty easy - well certainly easier than the few diesels I've swapped into d2's and RRC's. Ha ha.
 
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Roving Beetle

Well-known member
And as for the 4.6 swap..... A GOOD 4.6 will cost the same as a marks adapter and a good healthy 4.3 or small 4.8 GM. They will have similar power. The tweaks needed to install the GM vs the 4.6 in a gems or 14cux are easy - if you can't handle those YOU HAVE NO PLACE IN DOING A SWAP LIKE THIS. Both mechanical and electronic... If you can't do them yourself or AT LEAST fully understand it and pa some else with the equipment to do it - back away now.

I get the reasoning to do this. It's not that rover motors are garbage. Not at all. But Chebby motors are simply idiot-proof. That can't be argued.... LOL look at the general clientele. Ha ha
 

Roving Beetle

Well-known member
Oh - and a centered rear transfer case output and offset axle can work on our trucks... The shaft is long enough it it will require a cv style joint at the transfer and the rear diff pointed direct in line. It works fine. But adds cost. And the GM transfer hangs lower and has no ebrake. It gets messy and not worth it.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Well said.



And this is why I recommended a v6. Toss it in front of a decently solid ZF and it will be fine. That's where I got my $3500 budget from. No shafts to swap, minimal exhaust work, no radiator swap etc. pretty easy - well certainly easier than the few diesels I've swapped into d2's and RRC's. Ha ha.

I can't stand a damned V6.

Where's my wood?:)

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Hans747

Member
Jul 15, 2014
17
0
Asheville
Again, thanks for the advice, guys. Kennith and PM. I get what you're selling, but I came here not to learn all the reasons why it shouldn't/can't be done. I want to see how it has been done. I appreciate your advice, but it's falling on deaf ears.