LR3 or 2004 Disco?

[Owen Birch]

I test drove both, love the air suspension on the LR3, but concerned about its longevity. Also a bit curious as to what kind of mods can be done.

The 2004 I'm looking at is an SE7, no airbag suspension.

I'm planning on doing about 30% off road. What's the real reason why I should get the LR3 over the 2004 Disco with the Center Differential Lock?

I can get a 2005 dealer demo for about $10k more than the 2004.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[noee]

I see no reason to get the LR3, but really, it depends on what you want to do with the vehicle. If you want to eventually modify the vehicle for more aggressive off-roading, the D2 is the way to go, hands down. There are no suspension mods for the LR3 and most likely never will be.

 

[nwoods]

The real reason is not so much to do with off roading. The DII will go anywhere an LR3 can, though you will find yourself wanting to upgrade the DII with bumpers, lifts, wheels, etc.. These kinds of parts for the DII are comonly available and relatively cheap. There is a thread somewhere about costs of mod's and the average is between 5,000 and 10,000 for serious off road prep for a DI or DII.

The LR3 is better built, with much better materials, has more space, a truly brilliant and usefull tailgate design, rides better, drives on the road better, and has 100 more horsepower, a better audio and navigation system, and is in general more comfortable, and if you have kids or need to haul more than 4 people, is a clear choice. It is also likely to have better resell value, but that is negligable to tell the truth.

The down side with the LR3 is that aftermarket stuff is few and far between and very expensive. But it is quite comfortable and does everything well. And if the DII seems a bit small for you behind the wheel (driver comfort, not piloting feel), the DIII (LR3) will be much better for you.

There is one other minor difference I can think of: Your service department might treat you better (equal loaner) with the LR3 than they will with the DII, but that varies between dealers. With either truck, you will be all too familar with your dealer

But I am biased, I love my LR3
www.nextstepdesigns.com

 

[noee]

...you will find yourself wanting to upgrade the DII with bumpers, lifts, wheels, etc..

So, do LR3 owners find themselves ever wanting to upgrade with bumpers, lifts, wheels, etc?

 

[nferno]

As an '04 owner I can tell you that I prefer the Disco over the LR3. I have had the LR3 as a loaner and find it FORDified with a lack of comfort and handling. I will say that there are several features that I like - storage, seat options, etc.. But, my '04 went bone stock to the Nat'l Rally last year and its off-road performance was incredible. We have had a few issues but overall I am a Disco advocate till the end.

Good Luck.

 

[discobird]

As an '04 owner I can tell you that I prefer the Disco over the LR3. I have had the LR3 as a loaner and find it FORDified with a lack of comfort and handling. I will say that there are several features that I like - storage, seat options, etc.. But, my '04 went bone stock to the Nat'l Rally last year and its off-road performance was incredible. We have had a few issues but overall I am a Disco advocate till the end.

Good Luck.

I also have an '04 Disco I have also driven the LR3 as a loaner and off-road during a LR sponsored event. The LR3 handles well on-road and has many features. It had some problems in the mud during the off-road event, but I got through without a winch. Overall, it's better than most SUVs on the market, but it lacks that DiscoI/II character. I wouldn't buy one, but would take one if it was given to me

 

[nwoods]

So, do LR3 owners find themselves ever wanting to upgrade with bumpers, lifts, wheels, etc?

Bumpers not so much, tires absolutely. The factory Goodyear Wranglers are pretty bad. Smooth on pavement, but wear quickly, have almost no sidewall enforcement and general lack of trail adhesion.

There is a critical lack of wheels to modify to. I would like to buy an inexpensive set of steelies or 3rd party alloys for beating up on the trail, but no one makes them yet. The off set is kinda unique and the brake diameter requires a 18" rim min. on the HSE version. So you have a limited choice of the 3 factory LR3 styles, or the RRS styles.

The stock LR3 can go to 12" clearance in super extended mode, and 10.5" for normal off road mode, which seems to be pretty sufficent at least around rocky SoCal. The truck is nigh impossible to lift because the terrian control system is integrated into hgt sensors, and it also impacts engine power, transmission settings, etc...

My LR3 is a base model with coils, so I don't have those system integrations. But the lift is still daunting because of the IFS system. There is no precendenct for lifting the LR3, and the concern is that the CV's will fail if given a permanent lift (increases stress on the CV joint by increasing the angle on it). The stock air suspension system lowers back down to ride height above 30mph, partially for stability, partially to preserve the CV's.

Pesonally speaking, I like the LR3's interior over the Disco's. It's nearly a decade newer in design, and it shows. But it is a departure from the older Disco line and some people who are used to the Disco will never really get past that I think.

Rethinking the bumper thing. Right now, the only front bumper avail is the ARB bumper, and it's a massive monster of a thing. The rear bumper that just came out is from Kaymar, and it's identicle in every respect to the factory bumper, but it's steel instead of plastic. There is value to that, but it's something like $3,000 installed, which I think is ridiculous.

 

[nwoods]

I should add a bit more to this:
- DiscoBird stated a problem in the mud. Not sure if he had one with the rear diff lock, or if he was in off road "Mud & Snow" mode when he was in the mud, but that will make a BIG difference in the mud. To make sure to qualify the comments you hear.

- Again, if you off road a lot, you may really want the rear diff lock. I don't have it, and havn't needed it, but I don't go in mud very often. in rock crawling, I frequently have my truck on only two wheels and it still just keeps going without any problems, but guys who have the diff lock, swear by it. If you have the option, go with it!

- DiscoWeb is not the most favorable forum for the LR3. On a regular basis when on the trail Disco owners will ask me how many groceries it holds...but after wheeling with me, everyone of them will soften quite a bit and gudgingly give the LR3 it's due. Now two of these guys have bought their own LR3

- Try disco3.co.uk for a forum of LR3 owners, most of whom recently had Disco II's or Classics, P38's, or Defenders prior to their Disco III.

 

[JamesWyatt]

I know this thread is a month old, but this thing looks pretty tough. If the spare is moved to the rear door, it's getting damn close to looking like a Land Rover again. I guess I'm just a sucker for the orange ones.

 

[nwoods]

I'd like to update my post also. I recently went out into the hills with my friend and his "normal" LR3 (V8, air suspension, and the electronic rear diff), and it was signifcantly better than my personal base model coiler LR3. Smoother off road, and that 2.5" ground clearance made a WORLD of difference. The rear locker seemed to really help also. There was one challenging patch on a steep hill with large shelf rocks coated in loose dirt/sand. I'm told that most vehicles struggle quite a bit to get up this particular trail section. With stock Crapyear street tires, my friends LR3 went up it without so much as a pause. It pissed off another riding buddy with a beefed up (but unlocked) DII. He could go up it also, but took several attempts and lots of wheel spinning. It was so easy that we all took turns driving it up and down this section in the LR3 just to experience it.

There were some Jeep guys (cherokee's with lifts and tires) waiting for us at the top, and they were mighty impressed.

It seems that LR is finally getting the air suspension system faults licked via recent TSB service action. I think this is truly one of the best vehicles in the world at what it does. Premium Off Road luxury indeed!

 

[LR3invancouver]

I have an '05 LR3 HSE with the HD (lockers), winch and MT/R's. I am brand spanking new to 4x4ing and I can do some pretty hard core stuff (at least hard core by Land Rover standards... 4+ trails). I will be at the National Rally in Moab and if anyone wants to wheel their D1 or D2 with me I would love to experience the comparison.

 

[PacificGroveRover]

To establish my credibality: I own a 99 DiscoII (135,000 miles and counting) and a 2005 HSE7 -16,000 miles (Rear Diff Lock) and I have 3 kids.

Nwoods comments are dead-on! I will add the following:

On-Road Comparision - Absolutely no comparsion the DII does not even come close, I mean not even in the rear view mirror 20 miles close. The ride, the noise, the power there is just no comparision. Winner in a Landslide LR3.

Interior Space - I have 3 girls under the age of 7. My family purchased our Disco II with 26,000 miles on it and it was are main ride for 95,000 miles and we went on many3,000 mile trips and a multiude of trips to the California Sierras and it did a great job. Once my oldest girl became 6 and my 2nd oldest turned 4, the DII started to feel cramped. The LR3 is bigger period, that is just the bottom line!

Looks - When my wife and I first saw the LR3 we were really disappointed, but over time it grew on us. Now if I was going to spend $10k to $15k to trick both of my Land Rovers out to the max and I had to choose which one looked the most rugged and cool...winner - Discovery II

Off Road Ability (Stock Form) - My only true objective comparision is that I took both vehicles on the Land Rover Couse at Quail Lodge. Which vehicle performed with the greatest of ease on the course? - Winner LR3. My whole family went on both trips. My oldest daughter made the following comment about our Disco II...."Dad I liked our new LR3 better" and I asked her "why"...and she said...in ROVIE (DII nickname) I felt like we were in a ride at Disneyland boucning all over the place and sometimes I felt like we were not going to make it........!

I drive both of my Land Rovers everyweek. The DII rides like and old pick-up truck and the LR3 rides like a Bentely, but the Bentely can go anywhere the old-pick up truck can!

:victory:

 

[PacificGroveRover]

To Noee's question:

Yes I plan on doing the following to my LR3: Winch, Rear Ladder, Safety Device Roof Rack when available (SD just sent me an e-mail and they are still shooting for 2007), beefier skid plates and sliders.

 

[nwoods]

I have the beefier skid plates (from British Pacific), and I really like them. I also have the rear ladder (greatly improves the rear end look of the LR3), and there are multiple roof racks available now. Not sure I would want an SG one, because those are fairly permanent. Gas costing was it is, I can quickly and easliy mount my Hannibal rack for weekend excursions or when needed. FrontRunner in South Africa also makes a nice rack , and there are several others recently listed on disco3.co.uk topical discussion.

I'd like to have a winch at some point, but first I gotta figure out the suspension lift thing!

 

[Jamooche]

I can't believe this is even a debate. The LR3 is for the mall and for greenlaning. What happens if you bust one of the 8 CV joints on it in the middle of a trail? Whoops. Not to mention that it has air suspension and the bags can pop. And how many computers control the LR3? It's bad enough with my 1999 D2, that is, parts are expensive, very few people break axles/CVs. The first thing I did was remove the rear air bags and put in coils. Springs don't usually fail.

But that's just my opinion.

Jamil

 

[JamesWyatt]

I can't believe this is even a debate. The LR3 is for the mall and for greenlaning. What happens if you bust one of the 8 CV joints on it in the middle of a trail? Whoops. Not to mention that it has air suspension and the bags can pop. And how many computers control the LR3? It's bad enough with my 1999 D2, that is, parts are expensive, very few people break axles/CVs. The first thing I did was remove the rear air bags and put in coils. Springs don't usually fail.

But that's just my opinion.

Jamil

Time will tell, but I suspect they are best wheeled under warranty and with the roadside assistance number stored in your mobile phone.

 

[nwoods]

I can't believe this is even a debate. The LR3 is for the mall and for greenlaning. What happens if you bust one of the 8 CV joints on it in the middle of a trail? Whoops. Not to mention that it has air suspension and the bags can pop. And how many computers control the LR3? It's bad enough with my 1999 D2, that is, parts are expensive, very few people break axles/CVs. The first thing I did was remove the rear air bags and put in coils. Springs don't usually fail.

But that's just my opinion.

Jamil

You have a tradional mindset, and that is fine, but unfortunate. You are missing out i think on what is an excellent vehicle. The LR3 has been extensively off roaded and tested by real people in real situations for over three years now. The CV joints are not failing, because LR limited what you can do to them. The airbags are not popping, they are incased in a metal cylinder, and are made of durable stuff.

There have been compressor faults (now resolved under warrenty), and related software issues to the air compressor controls and also the transmission (now resolved under warrenty). But that's pretty much it. If you have an LR3, get it patched. Once it's patched, roam with abandon.

Oh, and do be sure to offer a comfy place to have lunch on the tailgate for those unfortunate Disco owners, and if you are especially kind, crank up the air for those Defender drivers. They look hot enough as it is

 

[garrett]

but i think you are missing the point as well. i don't want a plain vanilla point and shoot rover. that is why the Freelander makes me gag from a looks point of view.
i don't want a rover to do everything for me. i want to feel what is going on and know how to react to that. not have a series of computers do that for me.

i am sure the LR3 can take you places where we could not imagine it would, but getting it back each time is what worries me.

if i had three kids i would feel a lot safer taking them into the back woods with a DI or DII than i would with an LR3. it's still a rover and it still can and will break. when that happens i will always be able to get it home with a Pelican case of goodies.

i don't need all the comfy things on the trail either. i want the windows down, so i can hear what is going on. the animals, the smells and whatever else is going on. i hate Disneyland too. should be a crime to take kids there.

all that aside the LR3 is as ugly as Sally Struthers.

 

[Eric N.]

I'd like to have a winch at some point, but first I gotta figure out the suspension lift thing!

Bad thing with the LR3 is that not only is it IFS/IRS but, the axles run through the frame rails(at least in the rear). So not only would you need a custom made kit to address all the standard IRS/IFS lifting issues but, you would also need a kit to address the frame.. Plus, depending on how the kit is designed you may need to source some very high angle CV joints or you will be going through CVs on your axles every year. Maybe do away with the CV joint and have some custom CTM U-joint yolks made instead(if there is room). Plus, then comes the stress on the axle shafts themselves from the larger tires so you'd be looking at stronger axle shafts with stronger CVs at least for the rear if you have a locker in it.. I don't think any of that stuff is even made yet so you'd have to pay big time dollars to have someone make a kit and even bigger dollars if it's some company that actually knows what they are doing...

I'm thinking the easiest way would be to break out the sawzall and cut about 3-4 inches around each wheel opening, find a place to make some custom rims with a better back spacing (lots of places will make custom one-off plain/beadlocked steelies for $$$), and then find a place to make some custom flares to pretty up the newly opened wheel arches. Then if you are rear locker equiped just be very cautious when using it and buy some spare half shafts just in case.

Just an idea.

***Edit*** Oh, and be prepared to never use the rear passenger doors or at least the rear passenger door windows since it looks like the cutting will interfer with the internal workings of the rear doors..


****edit-edit*** Oh, and then the passenger side air intake and the gas door might need a little reworking too.. Not sure how much space it between them and the wheel openings.. Not to mention the interior of the wheel wells also since I'm not sure how much bigger they are then the wheel arch openings.

Maybe buy an 04 D2 to wheel and an LR3 to keep nice for around town..

 

[Kevb]

Hi Guys, These guys have the best LR3 I have seen yet, It belongs to a tour company who guide all over North Africa including Morocco, Tunisia and Libya. they dont seem to have any reliability issues. As far as i know they have 2 vehicles. One coils one air suspension, both lifted 2".
http://www.geoland.be/photos/index.html