LR3 or 2004 Disco?

[PacificGroveRover]

Well dudes, the LR3 is not for everyone. Nor is this portion of the forum. If you don't like the LR3, keep the hell out. If you haven't got something to contribute other than uninformed opinions, don't bother. You don't see us over on the antique Disco side of the house, teasing you about the Christmas tree lights on your dash, broken RotoFlexes, never ending rattles, leaks from every orfice, second class citizen status at the LR dealer, etc...

Nwoods...I am glad I am not the only one that gets pissed off ...you the man!atriot:

 

[PacificGroveRover]

It all depends on what you are going to use the vehicle for. I know many have said that before but as an '04 owner thinking about getting an LR3 my heart is somewhat torn.
I have an '04 SE7 no SLS or ACE and it performs just beautifully on road. I have taken it to the dealership wheels event and it did very well. They had an LR3 Leading our trail ride and the both performed well.
The main reason I'm considering the switch if for family reasons. I'd still like a vehicle I can do some light wheeling in, but it also need to carry the family and since I am considering expaning mine I've been asked by my wif to consider the LR3. Yes she feel in love with the Audio system. Possilbly the best stock one I have ever heard. The wind noise inside the cabin of the LR3 is dramatically reduced compared to driving the DII at 80mph. It doesn't rattle as much as my SE7 When going over bumps and rumble stirps. Putting a baby in the rear seat is somewhat of a challenge for my wife because of the height and the smaller door. I also have to transport older family members the other day and pratically had to grease them up to squeeze them through the door. Once inside one commented that it road like a train. I'm still trying to figure out if that is good or bad.
I like that the DII fits like a glove makes me feel like it was made just for me. Everything seems to be placed perfecly and I feel more like I'm one with the vehicle. I'm 6',3" by the way.
The LR3 is much easier to get into, much roomier than the DII both front and back. I'm currently using a loaner with the Nav system and now I could see me driving it every day. It took some time to adjust the seats so I feel more comfortable, like in the DII but the steering wheel is still far from hitting my thighs like on the DII where I only have about 1/4" of room. The LR3 give me like a foot so I feel comfortable and in control but I don't have to squeeze into my optimum driving position.
Its a lot easier to get the little one in and out of his car seat and rear passensers seem to be a lot more comfortable in the LR3 and I don't get a keen trying to poke through the front drivers seat from the rear passengers. That annoys me to no end. In the DII I perfer not to have anyone but the baby behind because of this.
I have not driven one off-road but given both the DII and LR3 being stock the seem to be even more capable. The LR3 seems to allow you to enjoy things a little more and give a little more peace of mind knowing that you can tune the vehcicle to the terrain its on.
The DII does require more skill and requires you to get to know the vehicle more so that you can do more with it. The LR3 tries to tailor itself to you and it's skill will grow as your skill grow if you choose.
The LR3 could be the ulitimate wolf in sheeps clothing, giving style and comfort but also having a very beastly side when taken off pavement.
Both vehicles in my mind are awesome but since I love to drive long distances and my comfort is not the only thing that is important I am deciding to move to the LR3 camp. Everyone is more comfortable and I still get a very capable and flexible vehicle.
I still think the DII has something of a soul. The way the engine roars to like, the way it goes anywhere its pointed and even though its not a sports car its ability to corner flaty. The way it looks and feels as you are driving it. I have never been lacking in vehicle feed back in the DII. The view from the drivers seat out the windshield is definitely differnt. The LR3 I think sits you a little lower than the DII but it still gives good visibility. In the end it just comes down to what you want. I want a comfortable family vehicle I can take of road and have always like Land Rover. The DII can do every thing the LR3 does its just more comfortable in the LR3.

I agree with everything you said...I have a family and own a 99 DII, but made the decision to get an LR3 over an 04 DII for all the reasons you stated. I still have my DII, but my LR3 is a perfect fit for this phase of my lifeatriot:

 

[kellymoe]

Nwoods...I am glad I am not the only one that gets pissed off ...you the man!atriot:

I don't see any reason to get pi$$ed off. Someone asked for an opinion in a group forum. Every person will have a different opinion. I actually think the tone has been very mellow compared to other threads. Nathan has a very strong opinion on the LR3 because he has put a ton of time and effort into his truck and actually uses his truck for what it was intended for. At least I think Land Rover intended it to be off road at least a little. A few issues back in Land Rover Lifestyle Magazine there was an article on how the LR3 had more input from women on the design than any other truck they have ever made. It's good to see the truck going beyond what there intentions were.

 

[PacificGroveRover]

I don't see any reason to get pi$$ed off. Someone asked for an opinion in a group forum. Every person will have a different opinion. I actually think the tone has been very mellow compared to other threads. Nathan has a very strong opinion on the LR3 because he has put a ton of time and effort into his truck and actually uses his truck for what it was intended for. At least I think Land Rover intended it to be off road at least a little. A few issues back in Land Rover Lifestyle Magazine there was an article on how the LR3 had more input from women on the design than any other truck they have ever made. It's good to see the truck going beyond what there intentions were.

Kellymoe,

In your opinion, what is/or were Land Rover's intentions for the LR3 (very curious)?

It seems the only thing the DI or DII have on the LR3 is that they both can be highly modified and thats it.atriot:

 

[DevilDisco]

The LR3 time is coming. I think that after LR brings over their Diesel engines the way the vehicle is viewed will take a different tone. We'll have to wait until 2008 if LR keeps their word. (I wonder if the TDV6 is a direct swap?) I am sure someone will find a way to hack the LR3 Suspension to get that extra 2" of lift. It's been done to P38's.
From what I see now there are Front bumper and Winch options, Rear HD bumpers, and slider coming soon. There are already roof racks and Long Range Fuel tanks. Looks like it can be modified pretty good to me? The only thing you can't do is a suspension lift using coil springs? I'm sure someone will come up with some longer Air Bag that could be used. Hell if they can lift a Dodge Ram using Air Springs surely a vehicle that comes with Air Springs can be lifted.
The only thing I can see is that right now none of the mods are really cheap, at least compared ot DI and DII Mode, and that's just becasue its new. Now the ice has been broken the door may be open to a little competion in the market the prices might become a little less expensive.

 

[JamesWyatt]

...It seems the only thing the DI or DII have on the LR3 is that they both can be highly modified and thats it.atriot:

You've actually seen them both in person, right? :rofl:

A few Disco advantages:

1. Modifications (for now)
2. Style and design more in line with the Land Rover heritage
3. Easier to field repair
4. Price point
5. Cost of maintenance to 150K miles
6. Character and charm
7. Doesn't have an "access height" setting

Other than that, I suppose nothing.

These are two very different types of vehicles for two very different mindsets.

Pre-LR3 Land Rover was a trinity of ideas: working man's luxury, off road ability, and character.

Post-LR3 Land Rover is also a trinity of ideas: sleek luxury, performance, off road ability

You can gain a lot moving to an LR3, but I'm afraid that what you leave behind is far greater.

 

[maxyedor]

The D1 is a hell of a lot shorter, my main complaint with the LR3 is how big it is, seing as how I don't need more than 4 seats and everything I need fits in my D1 with room to spare. Fortunatly the Rangie is a more reasonable size, and essentially the same truck as the LR3 otherwise. Also Discos are cheap, really cheap.

The Disco3/LR3 has grown on me, I still don't like the suspension design, never was a fan of air suspension. Nathan's has coils but it also has struts, thus making supension upgrades extreemly complicated and expensive. Forget the lift, you can't even upgrade the shocks, that's just stupid design, IMHO.

As far as complicated electronics go, yes the new Rovers have way more wires than any truck could possibly need. However it isn't like the electrical system on a D1 is either easy to figure out, or feild servicable. Bust an O2 sensor, or foul your MAF and you are screwed, no matter what truck you're driving, or how solid the axles are.

I would never take an LR3, D2, D1 or Defendder on a trek through the Anazon, for that I would want a coil converted Serries 2 deisle, with mechanical everything. I can't fix and ECU, but I can weld together an axel housing, and rebuild a mechanical fuel-pump.

Where I go wheeling I go with a group, and if something breaks, or somebody gets stuck we all help them out, also in Cali it's pretty hard to get to far from civilization, and parts. So it doesn't matter what you drive, you'll probably make it home alive. There are trails that a stock truck won't make it, but they can be avoided. An easy trail in a stock truck is more challenging and thus more fun than a moderate trail in a fully built trail rig.

It comes down to different strokes for different folks, buy whatever works for you, no one vehical is better at everything.

Back to the original question, D2 vs. LR3, I would opt for a D2, but for a similar price you can get a used Mk.3 Range Rover, and that would be ideal for me seeing as how I already have a scratched up, highly modded D1.

 

[kellymoe]

Kellymoe,

In your opinion, what is/or were Land Rover's intentions for the LR3 (very curious)?

It seems the only thing the DI or DII have on the LR3 is that they both can be highly modified and thats it.atriot:

I do not think that Land Rover was aiming at the off road market when they designed any of there current range of vehicles. I think they begrudgingly continue to produce a line of vehicles that are all four wheel drive because it is there heritage. I would not be surprised to see them offer a 2 wheel drive in the near future.

I am not a fan of independent suspension. I had a Toyota 4runner with IFS and it was limiting. I like the ability a solid axle gives of driving one tire up on a rock to give you extra clearance, in my 4runner when I drove a tire up on a rock the tire climbed the rock but left the rest of the trucks under side prone to things a solid axle vehicle would have missed. It is purely my opinion that Land Rover went to indipendent suspension to improve on road handling and comfort. They are not concerned about rock crawling and they shouldn't be, there's no money in it for them. No the drive train of the LR3 makes up for a lot. It will run circles around my Defender when it comes to climbing a steep hill with a loose surface or in the sand and probably mud (hate mud anyways). If you had that traction control system in a solid axle Land Rover it would be just about unstoppable. Still guys like Nathan and Adam Spiker are getting out there proving that these trucks are capable, not the best but capable. No truck can be the best at everything.

The LR3 is just not my cup of tea. If money were not an issue I would actually go for the RR Sport only because I like the lines of the vehicle better and I think it dresses up better when you add the off road crap.

No truck is that great after all, especially Land Rovers. If I wanted a great reliable truck I would have bought a Toyota. I love the Land Rover marque especially the classic lines and mystique of the old series vehicles and the Defender. That I believe is what truely represents what Land Rover was.

I enjoy wheeling with all types of four-wheel drives and try not to get caught up in the Land Rover hysteria. Go out and have fun with your vehicle and the people you are with. Life's too short to waste time arguing about cars anyway.

 

[kellymoe]

Max,

My carburated Defender is about as easy to work on as can be. No computer or complicated electronics. I wouldn't hesitate to take it on a trek anywhere.

I have to disagree about not being able to get far away from civilization in California. It might not be like being in the middle of Nevada but there are some spots in where you would be mighty screwed if you broke down. I have run trails in the Mojave where we were the only vehicle to travel the trail in over a year. The lonely trails are still out there, you just have to go looking for them.

 

[maxyedor]

Max,

My carburated Defender is about as easy to work on as can be. No computer or complicated electronics. I wouldn't hesitate to take it on a trek anywhere.

I have to disagree about not being able to get far away from civilization in California. It might not be like being in the middle of Nevada but there are some spots in where you would be mighty screwed if you broke down. I have run trails in the Mojave where we were the only vehicle to travel the trail in over a year. The lonely trails are still out there, you just have to go looking for them.

I was thinking about the NAS Defenders, and actually I was under the inpression that all Defenders were full of electronics, not as much as a Disco, but I thought they were all electronic fuel injected. I thought your 130 was either an NAS 110 or 90 that had been streched and rebodied, sounds like there's more to it than that.:drool:

As for the trails with one car per year, havn't found them, but then I've only been into offroading for a little while, still pretty much a noob. One day I'll find them, probably the day before they build houses there, but I would guess 97% of offroading in America is done in locations where if you broke down, it would be at the very most mabye a day or 2 before another truck came by to help you out.

Definitly agree on the looks of the Rangie/Rangie Sport, a little too bling for me, but I could live with it for sure.

 

[garrett]

It seems the only thing the DI or DII have on the LR3 is that they both can be highly modified and thats it.atriot:

hardly the case. how easy can you trouble shoot an LR3 on or off the trail? how easily can you field repair an LR3? oh yeh AAA can figure it out. lol.

let alone the fact that it's uglier than Roseanne Barr in German shiza video.

 

[tehamarx]

This discussion would make sense if "LR3" was replaced by 2004 Disco and "2004 Disco" was replaced by Series I, II, IIa, III

 

[nwoods]

I don't see any reason to get pi$$ed off. Someone asked for an opinion in a group forum. Every person will have a different opinion. I actually think the tone has been very mellow compared to other threads.

My comment is really more in line with the general noise level on the LR3 side of the forum from guys like Garret that inexplicably hate the LR3. I can understand not liking one truck for another, but Garret and a few others go way out of their way to ridicule the LR3. Fortunately, their comments are based on total ignorance, and often end up to be good for a chuckle or two because of that.

I think James said it best:
Pre-LR3 Land Rover was a trinity of ideas: working man's luxury, off road ability, and character.

Post-LR3 Land Rover is also a trinity of ideas: sleek luxury, performance, off road ability

Although I would argue that the LR3 is by no means a luxury vehicle compared to the RR, RRS, X5, ML, etc.... even the Volvo XC90 has more luxury in some ways than the LR3. But the LR3 definately places everyday usefullness and comfort in front of Off Road ability. Forunately, it didn't have to give up much to accomplish significant gains in comfort.

FWIW, I have installed a 1.5" lift, and am working on a net 2.5" lift fairly soon. But yeah, I sure wish those struts would accomodate a true 2.5 coilover without having to fab a shock bracket!

 

[JamesWyatt]

^^ Too bad Land Rover doesn't widely sell the coilsprung models in the states. 2.5" will be sweet. Is that the 2.5" lift spring mentioned in the thread on disco3.co.uk?

 

[PacificGroveRover]

You've actually seen them both in person, right? :rofl:

A few Disco advantages:

1. Modifications (for now)
2. Style and design more in line with the Land Rover heritage
3. Easier to field repair
4. Price point
5. Cost of maintenance to 150K miles
6. Character and charm
7. Doesn't have an "access height" setting

Other than that, I suppose nothing.

These are two very different types of vehicles for two very different mindsets.

Pre-LR3 Land Rover was a trinity of ideas: working man's luxury, off road ability, and character.

Post-LR3 Land Rover is also a trinity of ideas: sleek luxury, performance, off road ability

You can gain a lot moving to an LR3, but I'm afraid that what you leave behind is far greater.

Mr. Wyatt I still own my DII with 136,000 miles on it. My observations to your line items:

1) I agree
2) I agree
3) There has never been an LR3 that has failed in the field:smilelol:
4) I agree
5) Unknown - I doubt there is an LR3 that is privately owned with 150k on it. My Disco II was built while the LR employees were drunk becuase I charged an estimated $20k (Land Rover retail pricing) to my original Land Rover warranty and my extended warranty. Currently no leaks at all at 136,000 miles).
6) I don't puchase things that are charming I leave that to my wife. Character I agree thats why I still have my DII.
7) My 3 girls love the access height mode on my LR3

I much prefer the LR3 trinity becasue the LR3 outperforms the DII in regards to off road ability in stock form.

 

[PacificGroveRover]

I do not think that Land Rover was aiming at the off road market when they designed any of there current range of vehicles. I think they begrudgingly continue to produce a line of vehicles that are all four wheel drive because it is there heritage. I would not be surprised to see them offer a 2 wheel drive in the near future.

I am not a fan of independent suspension. I had a Toyota 4runner with IFS and it was limiting. I like the ability a solid axle gives of driving one tire up on a rock to give you extra clearance, in my 4runner when I drove a tire up on a rock the tire climbed the rock but left the rest of the trucks under side prone to things a solid axle vehicle would have missed. It is purely my opinion that Land Rover went to indipendent suspension to improve on road handling and comfort. They are not concerned about rock crawling and they shouldn't be, there's no money in it for them. No the drive train of the LR3 makes up for a lot. It will run circles around my Defender when it comes to climbing a steep hill with a loose surface or in the sand and probably mud (hate mud anyways). If you had that traction control system in a solid axle Land Rover it would be just about unstoppable. Still guys like Nathan and Adam Spiker are getting out there proving that these trucks are capable, not the best but capable. No truck can be the best at everything.

The LR3 is just not my cup of tea. If money were not an issue I would actually go for the RR Sport only because I like the lines of the vehicle better and I think it dresses up better when you add the off road crap.

No truck is that great after all, especially Land Rovers. If I wanted a great reliable truck I would have bought a Toyota. I love the Land Rover marque especially the classic lines and mystique of the old series vehicles and the Defender. That I believe is what truely represents what Land Rover was.

I enjoy wheeling with all types of four-wheel drives and try not to get caught up in the Land Rover hysteria. Go out and have fun with your vehicle and the people you are with. Life's too short to waste time arguing about cars anyway.

Mr. Moe,

I dont want to assume anything here, but are you aware of the cross linked air suspension on the LR3? It is truly amazing. Due to this the LR3 does not have the same issues that limit other IFS trucks.

 

[nwoods]

^^ Too bad Land Rover doesn't widely sell the coilsprung models in the states. 2.5" will be sweet. Is that the 2.5" lift spring mentioned in the thread on disco3.co.uk?

Not exactly. I am ordering the KingSprings heavy duty springs that should result in about 2.5" of lift, verses my 1.5" lift I have now, but I don't know if ultimately I will go with them. The drawback is that the strut/shocks will be significantly extended at that height, providing even less articulation.

The air suspended LR3 has amazing articulation thanks to it's cross-linked set up as mentioned by PacificLR3. That rear wheel will drop completely out of the wheel well when fully extended, providing significantly better traction and control than my coil jobber, because I only get about 7 or 8" of drop, and that was before the 1.5" lift. When I go wheeling right now, I am doing wheelies and hind leg lifts all over the place. Thank God for traction control, otherwise I would have a hard time of it!

I really would benefit the most from just bitting the bullet, cutting off the mounting cones, and welding on some eyebolt brackets to slap in whatever shock strikes my fancy. (I like the Donahues!). That would give me a 2.5" lift, significantly longer travel, and a softer road ride.

I really wish I knew how to weld!

 

[garrett]

nwoods. it's not that i hate the LR3 and Freelander so much as the direction of LR in general.
i'm not too old to be against change, modernation, evolution and technology. those will and need to happen to stay afloat.
but in the case of LR.......form no longer follows function. the art of practicality has left the building.

your love for traction control only goes to show your inexperience and reliance of it.

learn to REALLY drive a DI or older LR and you might understand.

driving an LR3 and letting everything happen TO YOU does not interest me. but that's just me.

 

[PacificGroveRover]

Garrett...Do you have rear or front lockers on your Land Rover or Land Rovers?atriot:

 

[JamesWyatt]

We should all meet up, disconnect a driveshaft, and show off our mad 2WD skillz!

4WD is just a crutch for good driving skills, after all...

This reminds me of the analog vs digital arguments in audio.