Mike Rowe Senate Testimony

knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
5,262
0
La Mancha, CA
:applause: Hell yeah.

I believe very firmly that labor skills need to be a part of high school and college education. My Dad learned to cast aluminum in his High School Metal Shop. I never even had a metal shop. Thankfully I had wood shop and graphic arts... but now, even those are gone. My cousins will never get to take a shop class at the high school I went to - even Auto shop is closing after this year... And this is a school in a very wealthy part of town with plenty of additional funding from the community.

If there's a program where I can apprentice as a welder, shit, sign me up.
 

brushogger

Well-known member
Sep 9, 2010
286
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chris snell said:
This man is right on the money.

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/dirtyjobs/mike-rowe-senate-testimony.html

Along those lines, here's another good piece written by Jay Leno:

http://www.kanabco.com/vms/callingallmachinists.html


Bravo!, Bravo! I live in a neighborhood of degreed people. They are good people, but for the most part they are helpless concerning anything outside of their job. How do I know this? I'm the one they come to for advice for their cars, plumbing, HVAC, etc. Jay is right on the money. Most of these people make nothing, but some provide neccessary services. Some think that being a MANAGER is the pinnacle! Mike was right when he says our current society doesn't value labor skills. My lawyer neighbor thought nothing about bringing his car over for a look, or asking for help repairing a leak, but when I asked him for some legal advice, he said to call him on Monday a.m. and he would set up an appointment. This wasn't an involved matter, he just wanted to be able to bill me. The next time he needed help designing a deck, I quoted him a price for the service. He was very offended. He valued his skills, but not mine.

My friends that are contractors in the licensed trades make great money, but they work hard for it. Personally I value 2 years of apprenticeship, and the journeyman time involved to get a contractors license just as much as a 4 year degree. Here in the Oklahoma City area, a skilled tradesman with a good reputation is never out of work. Usually there is a waiting list to get them to come out. The main thing is they don't have to go looking for work. The work is looking for them.
 

Mike_Rupp

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
3,604
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Mercer Island, WA
The problem is that there is, for some whacky societal reason, tremendous pressure to go to college. Back when I was in high school, there were kids who knew that they were going to go into the trades or other skilled manual labor jobs and others who would go to college. Now there seems to be a sort of stigma to go into the trades.
 

knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
5,262
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La Mancha, CA
Higher education is useful in and of itself, even if you DO go into the trades. In fact, these days, you need a degree for pretty much every job, trades included, and having a degree doesn't really qualify you for jack just by itself - hell, my old man has an MBA and he's a phone installer. Not that there's anything wrong with that, either. He makes a good living and has always provided for the family.

I work as skilled labor myself - albeit on the computer. I'm an editor. More and more, companies are trying to pay us less and less - there's this misconception that if you can use a computer you can edit, and it's simply not true. That's like saying if you can turn a wrench you're a plumber. I'm consistently insulted by the wages offered me, and by precisely the same lack of value people tend to place on my skills as brushogger. People still expect me to fix their computers for free, edit their projects for free or next to nothing, etc. They think, "oh, he'll just use the computer for that, no problem!" Like things just magically assemble themselves and work. Sigh. It took me years and years of hard work to attain the skill level I have. I agree completely that it blows hairy nutsack to have that devalued by fancy-pantses.

I don't necessarily think valuing higher-education is the problem - I think our society has gotten to the point where they just don't seem to value anything except finance; even lawyers and doctors aren't paid so well anymore.
 

az_max

1
Apr 22, 2005
7,463
2
Here's more food for thought:

Throughout the 70's, 80's and 90's Ireland placed a high priority on their students getting a secondary education and building high-tech businesses around the country. The Net Result: They've had to import labor from other countries to run the stores, petrol stations, fast food... any menial job that an educated worker wouldn't want to do. Now they're seeing an increase in foreign population among their ranks. Not since the middle ages when the Spanish conquered them have they seen such an influx of different races.
Now Add to that global consolidation and the closing of factories; a lot of well trained Irishmen must move off to England, Netherlands or France to find that high paying job.

I personally see nothing wrong with a person wanting to by a welder, woodworker, hell, even a ditch digger. It's a lot of these professions that make up the middle class of America. We can't all be computer guys or work in an air conditioned office all day. Someone needs to be able to fix the cars, work the land, build up society and make a decent living at it.

:patriot: Mike Rowe for President.
 

Mike_Rupp

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
3,604
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Mercer Island, WA
az_max said:
Now Add to that global consolidation and the closing of factories; a lot of well trained Irishmen must move off to England, Netherlands or France to find that high paying job.

It's funny you mention that. My sister married an Irishman who was working in the US because the job opportunities were better here than back in Dublin.
 

RBBailey

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2004
6,758
3
Oregon
www.flickr.com
Mike_Rupp said:
...Back when I was in high school, there were kids who knew that they were going to go into the trades or other skilled manual labor jobs and others who would go to college...

That's still true today. Problem is, even in a school like mine where we have a pretty first rate auto, metals, CAD, etc... shop course, we don't actually cater to those students who want to really learn those skills as trades -- we treat them as 1/2 credit options to take for one or two semesters -- fun. The non-graduation rate of above 50% that is very common in most schools can surely be directly attributed to the fact that most students don't see how the education we are giving them will help them do anything but get ready for college. And what do you know? About half the kids could care less about college.

There was a push in Oregon a few years back to have high school career tracks, but too many people like the one-size-fits-all type of factory schools we have, so the money went away.

School vouchers are a huge no-no because they go against what the Union would want, and they were first proposed by people who might be associated with Republicans.

Charter schools are making in-roads, but only because parents are insisting on them, and because schools are willing to let children out of school to go to the charter schools because the standard schools are too overcrowded -- so much so that they are willing to take the $30-$60k dollar hit for each student they release to attend a charter. Charter schools aren't much better in this respect, but they are more free to make intelligent decisions about coursework and texts, etc...

The problem comes down to people not wanting to change from traditional Cold War era type schooling, and the states deciding to spend money on pet social projects rather than what government is supposed to spend money on -- Infrastructure, safety, fire, police, and education.

These problems are perpetuated and kept by the Union(s) (I'm a member of three teachers' unions; not by choice, but because I would be black listed if I wasn't.) because they are the ones who want to keep the status quo. I'm not talking about some hidden agenda, this is the open agenda of the Unions... I would know, I go to the meetings. They interview me about who and what I'm planning on voting for. They constantly take steps for the 'workers' and the 'educators' rights, but only give lip service to things that are 'for the kids'.

I've never once seen the unions do anything that would directly benefit the students. Everything they do is for either one of two purposes: The pay and benefits of teachers (which is why they want the status quo of our schools to remain) and the perpetuation of the Democrat party. I've never once seen the unions do anything outside of these two things.
 

knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
5,262
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La Mancha, CA
That's not really the Teachers' Union's job though, is it? Their JOB is to make sure educators receive adequate compensation, benefits, and treatment, and even that seems like a losing battle. We spend very littler per child for education, and we pay our teachers shockingly low. It would be far worse if not for the union.

I'll be the first to admit that many unions are corrupt and despicable, and sometimes cause as many problems as they solve, but let's remember something really truly important - that these skilled labor jobs we're talking about would scarcely pay minimum wage if not for those unions.
 

nosivad_bor

Well-known member
Mar 27, 2004
6,061
64
Pittsburgh, PA
It's american culture that's the issue. We need to have a push at the federal level for apprenticeships and other trade work from high school.

Take a look at what Germany does and you will understand why they produce so much. There is no shame in factory work.
 
Mike_Rupp said:
The problem is that there is, for some whacky societal reason, tremendous pressure to go to college. Back when I was in high school, there were kids who knew that they were going to go into the trades or other skilled manual labor jobs and others who would go to college. Now there seems to be a sort of stigma to go into the trades.

This. When I was in high school-probably the same time Mike was, International Harvester was going full-tilt. General Electric was making motor and airplane controls, there were four wire mills in town, one could get a job in a factory soldering military radios or sonobouys together.

The high schools offered metal shop, wood shop, electronics, and off-site, a pretty good auto repair and body shop program.

Almost all of those employers are a ghost of what they were. The schools all teach CAD as a manual art.

Is it any wonder our economy is as flat as it is?

An economy has to make wealth, not just move it from one place to another.
 

nosivad_bor

Well-known member
Mar 27, 2004
6,061
64
Pittsburgh, PA
There are actually very few people required in a modern wire mill plant and most are not highly skilled.

Part of the issue is that as companies modernize and automate, there are less unskilled labor jobs required and more specialty skilled labor.
 
nosivad_bor said:
There are actually very few people required in a modern wire mill plant and most are not highly skilled.

Part of the issue is that as companies modernize and automate, there are less unskilled labor jobs required and more specialty skilled labor.

What? Where? Which wire mill?

The magnet wire plant where I was the environmental engineer (Phelps Dodge, Fort Wayne, one of, if not the largest magnet wire mill in the world-at least that's what they told us), all of the folks who were directly related to the manufacturing of the wire were all highly skilled and if they didn't learn those skills quickly enough and hone them, they were disqualified and found themselves cleaning toilets.

Measuring skills, observation skills, some math (gotta collect QC data), tweaking the machines, etc all required some skill.
 
Mike_Rupp said:
Damn Paul, I pictured you as much older than I am. I graduated high school in 1987.

LOL-I guess I am a few years older, I figured we were closer, still nearly same generation.

I graduated college the first time in '87-LOL.

I'm curious about the wire mills Rob was in as Fort Wayne was the world's center of magnet wire up until just a few years ago. At one point, there were five (oops, four big ones, P-D, Rea, Essex and GE) BIG mills in Fort Wayne. Parts of town smelled like phenol for miles away.
 
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