Mike Rowe Senate Testimony

[RBBailey]

...Their JOB is to make sure educators receive adequate compensation, benefits, and treatment....

That's exactly what the unions are for. So why do I need to be a part of three of them? Why do my dues go to the Democrat party? Why do they care who I vote for? Why do they work so hard to keep the status quo in the way we do school.

My point was that they don't do anything for education, but they work very hard to make sure education remains a one-size-fits-all factory system.

If I could be a part of a district or state sized union that simply represented me when negotiations for pay and benefits came up, that would be perfectly fine.

But that wouldn't really matter anyway, it's all about money to them. I've (we've) needed the union representation several times and they have always left us out to dry.

I feel that I'm being paid quite well. I've always been very happy to get my check, and very proud of the fact that they recognize my work in getting my Master's degree, and give me a raise because of it! They paid for part of my schooling, they pay for a great deal of my insurance, they pay for a good chunk of retirement as well. At least in my experience, teachers are paid well!

 

[Mike_Rupp]

Unions exist for the express purpose of guaranteeing the workers will make more money than what the market would bear without unions, so that when their dues are funneled to the democrat party they won't be terribly upset.

 

[RBBailey]

Yep, I agree. But the problem with districts and teachers is that it has historically been more than just pay. For instance, when the district cut my two kids' health insurance last year, right in the middle of the year, they told me they cut it because I had changed coverage during open enrollment -- open enrollment is when you are supposed to make changes to your coverage.

Of course, the union wouldn't represent me, probably because of how I vote, and because each year I request that I not have to pay dues that go to their political action committee. So my kids were without health insurance for 4 months last year.

Another example of why a union is needed for teachers would be class sizes. It's one of the first things that goes into negotiations (after pay and benefits) class sizes would be around 40 or more if it wasn't limited in our contract.

Limits on work time and building safety are also negotiated in our contracts. Work time is important in that I usually spend an hour or more per night, at home, doing paper work. I spend about 4-5 hours on the weekends. This is with two hours of non-teaching paper work and meetings time built into each of my school days! It's stupid!! It's a waste of time!! But that really is how much time I spend on just correcting papers -- and I work hard at making a point of trying to do as much grading in class as I possibly can! In fact, I'm doing homework right now, just and taking a break to browse DWeb. I'm into my second hour for the day, and I'm unsure if I will be able to do family stuff tomorrow because I have another few hours of work time ahead of me to prep for the day on Monday. (A lot of this is due to the fact that the text books they give us are so useless that I can't teach from them, so I build my own curriculum. I've used the history text book twice this year. Hundreds of thousands of dollars of uselessness.)

I would be a proponent of district sized unions but anything bigger only serves to benefit the politicians with $$$$$ and voters. In other words, for my district, I need someone to represent me when it comes to the legal issues in a contract, someone who can go to the meetings and basically do the homework to keep on top of those things so that I can focus on teaching. But there is not one shred of need for the NEA or the Oregon EA -- at least, not unless you are a Democrat politician.

 

[emmodg]

Thats great! Reminds me of the book "Shopclass as Soulcraft". Go read it.

Great book! A little "heady" at times but should be read by everyone.

 

[LRflip]

College wasn't even difficult. Laying 72" RCP is.

Our foremen and supers are getting up there in age. We've got two in their mid 70's.

There is a huge skill gap in the construction industry for sure. I'd love to go out into the field and manage a crew but, I don't have that skill and right now I get paid more to sit at a desk. I've spent time in the field but as a laborer on a pipe/grading crew during my summers while in College....I hated college.

 

[varova87]

The problem is that there is, for some whacky societal reason, tremendous pressure to go to college.

LOTS of truth to this. Looking back on my college years, the most valuable things I learned were learned outside of the classroom, in the real world. Taking semesters off from college to spend time actually working in my field of study was the best decision I made.

 

[chris snell]

So how do we change this situation? How do we steer kids towards the trades? How do we improve the perception of these types of jobs?

I'm probably thinking like a Democrat here but it seems to me that there is only one way to get more high schoolers to choose hard trades over desk jobs in our new service-based economy: money. I'm not suggesting that we need to pay these kids outright, but we need to incentivize them to consider these alternative jobs. Maybe it means more funding better equipped trade schools. Maybe it means a PR campaign that showcases some people who are making a great living doing "blue collar work", such as the guys who run the aircraft parts factory in Leno's article.

What are your ideas?

 

[D Chapman]

People have the mindset that you must go to college to get a good job. In the eyes of some, you're a piece of shit white trash if you do not go to college. It does not matter if you skimmed through college by the skin of your teeth, just as long as you get that diploma. That way you have the option to sit for 8 hours a day in a cubical doing a job you actually hate but can't afford to quit.

I live about 10 minutes away from James Madison University. I think the state of New Jersey funds this college with all the students they send here to study psychology and marketing. I know there is some money to be made in psychology and marketing, but I also know it's about the biggest bullshit degree out there. Nothing says I don't know what I'm going to do with my life more than a psychology and/or marketing degree. But hey, they got the seal of approval from their parents and grandparents for going to college.

 

[mjbrox]

I often wish that I learned a skilled trade insted of getting a EE degree

 

[sideview]

I often wish that I learned a skilled trade insted of getting a EE degree

You're not dead yet

 

[ptschram]

I often wish that I learned a skilled trade insted of getting a EE degree

My skilled trades abilities have gotten me through some very lean times.

Knowing how to run a backhoe has been more valuable for me than knowing how to use the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation.

Knowing the malonic acid ester synthesis cycle has never been valuable in the workplace.

I worked in my field the last two years of college and that prepared me more for working than the previous four years that I didn't work. My grades improved as well.

 

[Mike_Rupp]

Knowing how to run a backhoe has been more valuable for me than knowing how to use the Henderson-Hasselbalch equation.

That's too bad. I hope to be using that equation as part of a hobby of mine. That equation helps to understand the pH of a certain wonderful buffered solution.

 

[mjbrox]

You're not dead yet

I never wanted to be an Engineer. I always wanted to go into sales.

I had a good sales job, but wanted to move back to Richmond.
Bad economy
bla bla bla

Now I just started a new sales job that turns out to be more customer support and some light repair work. I am sure it will move into more sales. At first I did not like the idea of turning wrenches for a living, but now I am finding it refreshing.

One of the guys in my training class is having issues, I am not even 100% sure he can change his own oil.

 

[emmodg]

Mike hit the nail right on the head! Society places a premium on "higher-education". It's an undeserved and often misplaced premium but it is there nonetheless.

People no longer appreciate "craft". They no longer respect labor and the use of one's hands to attain pride in work. There's something deeply satisfying about creating something - something tangible.

When I was an art director we learned type manipulation through tracing type with a pencil, pen, tracing paper and a corked-back ruler. You "created" proper letter-spacing, kerning and leading through actual cutting and taping actual letters and words! Now its' Adobe Indesign and Quark. I built my home with my own two hands. I didn't do any HVAC or plumbing or tile work but I certainly watched in awe sometimes at the skill those tradesman have.

There's no "craft" left, no pride in the tangible. It's all about writing code and running simulation on the computer.

 

[D Chapman]

I didn't do any HVAC or plumbing or tile work but I certainly watched in awe sometimes at the skill those tradesman have.

I helped your mom do a little plumbing last night.

 

[jim-00-4.6]

There's something deeply satisfying about creating something - something tangible.

Some years ago, I was doing work that produced "fleeting" results; you could see what I did on TV, then it was gone.
I suppose some aliens will be watching it when it gets to their solar system.
It was lots of fun for quite a while, but after working a bit for "Inside Edition", it started to feel not so great.
So I started installing phone & data network systems in office buildings.
For years, I could drive by an office, and see people on the phone & using their computers, and say "I did that."
And that was cool.

Now I mostly shuffle electrons again.
But work is better than no work these days.

To a lot of people, tradesmen are "invisible", like Mike Rowe said.
Even if he DID see the plumber, he wouldn't have actually seen him.

Unfortunately, here in Colorado, many "tradesmen" no speaka da english. Since my spanish is limited to "2 beers, please", I can't really talk too much to them...

My father-in-law has a friend who is just magic with metal.
You can describe something, sketching it with your hands in the air, and come back in a day and there it is.
Old dude has some mad skillz.

 

[p m]

I often wish that I learned a skilled trade insted of getting a EE degree

A good EE is golden.

We mostly deal with products-of-times who'd know how to simulate a neural network, yet wouldn't know what to do with a DMM. Or MEs who'd do a computer-simulated crash testing, yet would have no idea what a 1/4-20 means.

 

[ptschram]

A good EE is golden.

Or MEs who'd do a computer-simulated crash testing, yet would have no idea what a 1/4-20 means.

Environmental Engineer?

I worked with a fellow who was a Lincoln Tech grad, BMW expert. I sent him to a store to get a piece of 1/4-20 threaded rod, he didn't know what I meant.

 

[p m]

sorry Paul, I haven't met a person who would translate EE other than Electrical Engineer.

 

[ptschram]

That's too bad. I hope to be using that equation as part of a hobby of mine. That equation helps to understand the pH of a certain wonderful buffered solution.

You get hundreds of esoteric knowledge points!

Wonderful buffered solution, eh? Most solutions other than strong acids/bases are buffered, per the H-H equation. Lemme guess, beer?