Oh Milwaukee...We Have a Problem

ERover82

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Nov 26, 2011
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Darien Gap
In the US...
Do Asians loot and burn?
Do Hispanics loot and burn?
Do American Indians loot and burn?
Do Muslim Americans loot and burn?
Do gays loot and burn?
Do Jews loot and burn?

Is it really "just" slavery that drives Black Americans to loot and burn? Is that the root of the matter? Are there no other minorities "wronged" to such a degree as blacks that they may loot and burn? Are there no other minorities in the US so marginalized, so forgotten, and so deprived by whites that they may loot and burn? I really don't know. I think we are asking the wrong questions. I think we're way too scared to ask the right questions. It's a boat NO ONE wants to rock.

The socioeconomic and cultural consequences of slavery and decades of segregation are absolutely the primary cause. No group you mentioned has comparable history in the US.

What happens when a people marginalized economically, with a history violent oppression, and poor education which results in them being least prepared to understand and improve their situation? It results in an easily provoked people who respond in the only way they know how.

Of course the actions aren't rational, but measured rationality is a luxury not understood by many who are born into it.
 
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fishEH

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Jan 26, 2009
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Lake Villa, IL
Bullshit.

The socioeconomic and cultural consequences of slavery and decades of segregation are absolutely the primary cause. No group you mentioned has comparable history in the US.

What happens when a people marginalized economically, with a history violent oppression, and poor education which results in them being least prepared to understand and improve their situation? It results in an easily provoked people who respond in the only way they know how.

Of course the actions aren't rational, but measured rationality is a luxury not understood by many who are born into it.
 

p m

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The socioeconomic and cultural consequences of slavery and decades of segregation are absolutely the primary cause. No group you mentioned has comparable history in the US.
To take it a little outside the U.S. - do Jews loot and burn? Despite centuries of practical slavery and segregation? Not to mention marginalization economically and history of violent oppression?

Eric, total and complete BS.

Whatever happens now is the result of rich white people out on a guilt trip.
 

ERover82

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Nov 26, 2011
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To take it a little outside the U.S. - do Jews loot and burn? Despite centuries of practical slavery and segregation? Not to mention marginalization economically and history of violent oppression?

All the groups mentioned have at some point in history, when under similar pressure, done exactly that, including Jews. For the latter look at the Jewish-Roman wars, the Cave of the Patriarch, Kach, Gush, JDL, Kingdom of Israel. Look at the causes of these events and groups and there are many obvious and parallels. Yet this is despite the Jews having the huge advantage of a pre-existing set of religious and cultural beliefs, many of which preclude violence.

Not sure what you're getting at about white guilt trips.

Despite my name and large dick, I'm not black.
 

kennith

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Apr 22, 2004
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North Carolina
The socioeconomic and cultural consequences of slavery and decades of segregation are absolutely the primary cause. No group you mentioned has comparable history in the US.

What happens when a people marginalized economically, with a history violent oppression, and poor education which results in them being least prepared to understand and improve their situation? It results in an easily provoked people who respond in the only way they know how.

Of course the actions aren't rational, but measured rationality is a luxury not understood by many who are born into it.

Set foot in any of their native lands, or any of their neighborhoods, or any of their clubs, or any of their...

It's got nothing to do with slavery. That was a multi-lane bidirectional highway in the eras commonly cited and before. They captured their share of whites and other races. Indeed, they were bloody well known for it; as well as their almost unbelievable levels of cruelty.

As for the practice in the Americas; most weren't brought here, and the ones that were worked alongside many other races in the same situation.

The "history" of slavery is lousy with errors and opinion, and so are the assumptions in regard to opportunity and setbacks. They've got it good, man.

I challenge anyone to cross multiple borders in the African bush, nowhere near any tourist attractions, spend many months working alongside the various tribes in various nations, struggling with bandits, villagers, in cities, and even around happy subsistence nomads and farmers, and not come upon some truths that would, at this time, make quite a few people uncomfortable.

How many excuses can you make? You'll need a different one for every primarily black community on the planet.

We are all different, and it goes well beneath the skin. One race is not superior; but painting everyone with the same brush, and expecting the same behavior while disregarding that which makes humanity diverse will indeed enable frustration as people are crammed into molds in which they will never properly fit.

I've got plenty of experience, in this regard.

We couldn't afford any better than a black school when I was a kid. We also attended a black church (church-going never stuck, obviously). In high school I was in an all black squad, and for a while Uncle Sam had me in one as well. Later, I spent quite a bit of time in mostly black nations, and participated in black car culture; spending plenty of time in neighborhoods most whites have sense enough to avoid. I rather enjoyed selling wheels and subwoofers on street corners and in alleys. It was just fun.

From a cultural experience point of view, I'm far "blacker" than most white peoples' "black friends".

I still keep Dynamat in the cars to fix rattling license plates and trunk trim when I hear it. I'll call someone out in an intersection and sort that nonsense right out. Come to think of it, right now I've got black neighbors, in the only house in this little industrial park; and I spend quite a bit of time with the black lady running our little country post office. She's been testing out a book I'm writing. (EDIT: I forgot. I'm also commissioned to write a screenplay dealing with black cultural issues... I despise social commentary in my entertainment, but I'm a whore...)

The thing that shocks white people?

I'm not shy about voicing my observations on race, regardless of company. I bring it right to the table when the topics come up, or when I'm just interested in the discussion. The only people who have ever called me a racist were white...

Imagine that. :banghead:

It's not just black culture, though. I involve myself in many cultures; it's just that one that's been with me my whole life. Not my favorite, but not my least favorite, either.

To make a long story short (EDIT: Too late... LOL), I am, and always have been, of the opinion that color-blindness is by far the worst form of racism. People are different, and we all need to stop bullshitting ourselves and admit it. The sooner that happens, the sooner we can all enjoy those differences together.

Notice the way this post is written, and how it reeks of "us versus them". I don't want to do that, but it's unavoidable. That's what happens when people act out like this; you're forced to look at race in a binary manner. The problem is, they're outnumbered.

This is a cultural battle that, if started, they will most certainly lose. That's the shame of it all. Sowing the seeds of your own cultural annihilation...

Cheers,

Kennith
 
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kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
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North Carolina
Shit. I did it again... I need to type this stuff up in Word first to see a count of the characters before I post. That one's worth reading, though, for those of you who normally skip long posts.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

fishEH

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Jan 26, 2009
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Lake Villa, IL
Eric I know lots of black people from many different backgrounds that would never even think about looting a store or burning a car. Why? Because someone in their family at some point said "my kid isn't going to act that way". They broke the cycle of bullshit.
Those looting and burning EMBRACE that cycle of bullshit.
Of course slavery had a profound impact on their great great great grandparents. But that was a long time ago and anybody still clinging to that, white or black, is full of bullshit.
The looter community isn't going to improve through white guilt, affirmative action, or reparations. The ONLY way it can improve is from within.
The black community needs a civil war.
 

Blue

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Mar 26, 2004
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I usually don't wade into these septic pit arguments on dweb anymore....but what the hell....

I don't totally disagree with Eric on this one, at least on the segregation side of the argument. Fuck the slavery argument, that is ancient history as far as the USA is concerned and, as others have pointed out, slavery was most certainly not just white on black oppression. As far as the years and years of segregation are concerned, I can understand some modern angst persisting to this day. And of course the cause & effect is very much still here today (segregation leading to poor education, leading to poor living conditions, poverty, violence, etc.).

But then you look at the latest Milwaukee scenes which are just like all the other scenes in *insert name of inner city shithole here*. Someone posted something about the irony of how you have a black criminal shot by a black cop who is defending a black community and the response is for the black community to burn down black businesses in their own black community. These are not people anymore, they are animals. At some point you just stop caring about the cause & effect and realize they are animals and they belong in a zoo.
 

emmodg

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Apr 17, 2006
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The socioeconomic and cultural consequences of slavery and decades of segregation are absolutely the primary cause. No group you mentioned has comparable history in the US.

What happens when a people marginalized economically, with a history violent oppression, and poor education which results in them being least prepared to understand and improve their situation? It results in an easily provoked people who respond in the only way they know how.

Of course the actions aren't rational, but measured rationality is a luxury not understood by many who are born into it.

That is a tired and flawed argument. One that has long wasted valuable time on some kind of remedy or "repair.

So where were did Jews burn and loot due to the atrocities of the Hitler's final solution? Jews were a target of extermination NOT "use". They were not valued for their labor in the end, instead, they were considered sub-human and parasitic. The American Indian was treated somewhat similar. The Indian was considered a savage. A group worth little and they too were targeted for extermination. We had no use for the Indians labor. They were better marginalized in reservations. Out of sight, out of mind. Where is the Indian burning and looting?

If slavery IS the root than Black America is forever doomed. You cannot erase history. I cannot think of any populace MORE "marginalized" or forgotten, oppressed with violence or otherwise in the US than the American Indian. Not one! An Indian had no value, as a slave or human. Where is the Indian burning and looting?
 

kennith

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Apr 22, 2004
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North Carolina
That is a tired and flawed argument. One that has long wasted valuable time on some kind of remedy or "repair.

So where were did Jews burn and loot due to the atrocities of the Hitler's final solution? Jews were a target of extermination NOT "use". They were not valued for their labor in the end, instead, they were considered sub-human and parasitic. The American Indian was treated somewhat similar. The Indian was considered a savage. A group worth little and they too were targeted for extermination. We had no use for the Indians labor. They were better marginalized in reservations. Out of sight, out of mind. Where is the Indian burning and looting?

If slavery IS the root than Black America is forever doomed. You cannot erase history. I cannot think of any populace MORE "marginalized" or forgotten, oppressed with violence or otherwise in the US than the American Indian. Not one! An Indian had no value, as a slave or human. Where is the Indian burning and looting?

Don't forget the Chinese.

Not long after railroad pioneers bought their slave-labor "contracts" and had them doped up and chemically dependent by the tens of thousands, hammering spikes 24/7 through the depths of hell, Japan hopped over, kicked the shit out of them, and turned the nation into a pile of labor camps.

They ended up fucked no matter where they went, and endured some of the worst hardships imaginable; selling themselves and their children, and even resorting to cannibalism just to avoid starvation. These weren't isolated incidents, mind you; they were commonplace.

Think blacks have it rough? To this day, Chinese children are indentured, locked away, and sold across the world; even here in the United States. It's not a small problem, either. It's big business, and precious little is done by others to stop the practice.

We pour unimaginable resources into black communities worldwide with few positive results, and yet the Chinese have managed to rise above their hardships without aid; even while still enduring and fighting against them. The sick thing is, just as they begin to chip away at the human trafficking, they begin to find themselves trapped an unable to work their way out of Orwellian factory cities...

...And yet, they aren't looting and setting fires here, even as they watch us feed the machine of their torture and cultural demise. Instead, they strive to fight their way out of that oppression with hard work and obsessive study.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
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High Point, NC
The socioeconomic and cultural consequences of slavery and decades of segregation are absolutely the primary cause. No group you mentioned has comparable history in the US.

What happens when a people marginalized economically, with a history violent oppression, and poor education which results in them being least prepared to understand and improve their situation? It results in an easily provoked people who respond in the only way they know how.

Of course the actions aren't rational, but measured rationality is a luxury not understood by many who are born into it.

Guess the absent fathers don't have a thing to do with it? Society doesn't raise children, parents do. I'm not even a father and I know that. Bad apples will happen regardless of a child's upbringing. Burn the suburbs down? I need my weave? These people better not come to the true south. Citizens of all colors, ethnicity and backgrounds won't put up with that shit.
 

brian4d

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Dec 3, 2007
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High Point, NC
To take it a little outside the U.S. - do Jews loot and burn? Despite centuries of practical slavery and segregation? Not to mention marginalization economically and history of violent oppression?

Eric, total and complete BS.

Whatever happens now is the result of rich white people out on a guilt trip.

The guilt trip ended with Obama.
 

seventyfive

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Jan 3, 2010
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over there
That is a tired and flawed argument. One that has long wasted valuable time on some kind of remedy or "repair.

So where were did Jews burn and loot due to the atrocities of the Hitler's final solution? Jews were a target of extermination NOT "use". They were not valued for their labor in the end, instead, they were considered sub-human and parasitic. The American Indian was treated somewhat similar. The Indian was considered a savage. A group worth little and they too were targeted for extermination. We had no use for the Indians labor. They were better marginalized in reservations. Out of sight, out of mind. Where is the Indian burning and looting?

If slavery IS the root than Black America is forever doomed. You cannot erase history. I cannot think of any populace MORE "marginalized" or forgotten, oppressed with violence or otherwise in the US than the American Indian. Not one! An Indian had no value, as a slave or human. Where is the Indian burning and looting?

the Native American was the white Anglo Saxon protestant's worst nightmare. The Native American is a maternal society, self sustainable, and did not even have a word for money. The native could not be enslaved, they were warriors.
You're absolutely correct regarding indigenous, if you can not be controlled by money/enslaved you are absolutely worthless to a white man.

Indigenous are still facing economic genocide on reservations however in Canada many indigenous have political parties Indigenous are treated well in Quebec but the other provinces hate them.
Russel Means was the last true hope for American indigenous....check out some of his you tube videos. The video of him addressing congress was amazing.

The CBC has an indigenous section on their news feed, and has daily updates. http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/aboriginal
 

ERover82

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Nov 26, 2011
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These blacks are the comparable to Trump supporters, uneducated, poor, angry, and unable to understand and deal with their situation constructively, but younger, black, and even worse off. Open communication, movement, physical communities, and American cultural values which certainly don't preclude riots, are some factors that differentiate them from your examples of "well why didn't they revolt?".

Rioters aren't seething with thoughts of slavery, but to pretend that slavery didn't shape the current situation is like pretending globalization has nothing to do with angry old jobless white men, or that widespread German poverty from economic sanctions following WWI didn't have a part in the foundation of the Nazi party.
 

fishEH

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Jan 26, 2009
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Lake Villa, IL
I think most people are bored with their bullshit and antics, I know I am. I don't really care about all the "why's". I just want them to grow the F up and stop acting like animals.
These blacks are the comparable to Trump supporters, uneducated, poor, angry, and unable to understand and deal with their situation constructively, but younger, black, and even worse off. Open communication, movement, physical communities, and American cultural values which certainly don't preclude riots, are some factors that differentiate them from your examples of "well why didn't they revolt?".

Rioters aren't seething with thoughts of slavery, but to pretend that slavery didn't shape the current situation is like pretending globalization has nothing to do with angry old jobless white men, or that widespread German poverty from economic sanctions following WWI didn't have a part in the foundation of the Nazi party.
 

Mongo

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Apr 19, 2004
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I think most people are bored with their bullshit and antics, I know I am. I don't really care about all the "why's". I just want them to grow the F up and stop acting like animals.
withya on that...
 

Blue

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Mar 26, 2004
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Their revolution should be termed "Planned Adulthood" because it's essentially meeting the same goals as Planned Parenthood.
 

brian4d

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Dec 3, 2007
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High Point, NC
These blacks are the comparable to Trump supporters, uneducated, poor, angry, and unable to understand and deal with their situation constructively, but younger, black, and even worse off. Open communication, movement, physical communities, and American cultural values which certainly don't preclude riots, are some factors that differentiate them from your examples of "well why didn't they revolt?".

Rioters aren't seething with thoughts of slavery, but to pretend that slavery didn't shape the current situation is like pretending globalization has nothing to do with angry old jobless white men, or that widespread German poverty from economic sanctions following WWI didn't have a part in the foundation of the Nazi party.

This is the biggest pile of bullshit I've ever read. You sound like a CNN correspondent. Let's connect the dots with today's riots, police efforts and crime with slavery that ended 153 years ago. As my black 19 year old neighbor told me, "I'm not a slave, my parents weren't slaves and my grandmother wasn't a slave, how does that effect me?"

And Trump supporters are uneducated? That's fresh coming from the DNC side of things.
 

emmodg

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Apr 17, 2006
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I'm Irish. The potato famine hasn't effected me yet. The exclusion in the early US of Irish from businesses hasn't effected me yet. When should I expect my rage to overcome me?