Premium Brands Now Made In China ???

[JeffM]

Why is it that most of the so called premium branded stuff is now made in China? And is it just me but I really loath spending premium money on something that's made in China or Malaysia.

I went to get my Wife a new fleece today - of course she decided she just couldn't do without a TNF Denali - So I did the dutiful husband thing and took it up to the cash register to pay - Just before the clerk got her hands on the well used Amex card I noticed on said garment - made in bleedin china ????

Needless to say the garment went back to the place from whence it came - We ended up buying a Black Diamond fleece instead - while not as flash/name brand/what have you - At least its made in the USA. Of course I saved a hundred bucks in the bargain

Its funny but I had been pretty oblivious to where the so called premium stuff was made until this last year or so - sure we all know about the Nike crap that's made by little kids in India and pakistan - but TNF and Mountain Hardware ..... WTF.

Gripe over.

 

[nickb857]

You can pay premium for made in the US Patagonia, or maybe they charge a little extra from the different materials they use, i dont really know. Some one will know better than i do

 

[cmlmtn]

Arc'teryx is made in Canada. Highest quality technical clothing I own.

 

[JeffM]

Yep I like some of the Arc'teryx stuff - but I didn't think that all of it was made in N/A - I need to get some pac boots. So there are a number of boots you look at Kamick, Sorel and Baffin - of the 3 the only ones I could find that were not made in China were the Baffin Technology ones. Unbelievable.

 

[Alyssa]

LR has partnered with Arc'teryx for a lot of their gear now.

And I completely agree with you, Jeff. If you are paying so much, why isn't it made where you think it should be made? It seems like EVERYTHING is made overseas now!

 

[cmlmtn]

As far as Pac boots try Wiggys (Made in CO) orSchnees (made in MT) Both good quality.
As far as import quality goes, the old addage still holds true...you pay for what you get. I udes to import medical equipment from Asia, and there are many levels of quality at the factories. The reputable companies will pay upwards of $10k per month to have someone from corporate oversee production in Asia. Keep in mind, we are all driving imported vehicles.

 

[bri]

There is plenty of stuff out there made in the USA. You will find it easier if you shop at a specialty store instead of large chain, such as REI. And the stuff made in china is in general-- shit.

 

[GregH]

Lol!

 

[rivrmutt]

unfortunately....

All the top brand companies, Mt. Hardwear, Royal Robbins, Lowe Alpine, Marmot, and any of the other quality climbing, skiing, kayaking, backpacking, etc. brands all have stuff made in third world countries. If you look at all the different products from one company you will find that they get different things made in different places. Even US based and started companies, like Woolrich, have to have somethings made over seas.

The problem is to have things MADE In the USA, you have to pay USA wages. If more people were willing to pay twice the price for items them maybe more prodicts would be made in the USA.

And by the way Patagonia has alot of things made in far away places too.

Most people think Harleys are 100% USA, sorry people, try 48%

 

[bri]

I agree. There are a few things that are important in my book (other than the shipping of jobs overseas which I am not arguing).

Is the material made in the US or not. Is the product manufactured (assembled in the US or not). From my experience, having in assembled or manufactured in the US is the important part and many of the name brands will still have *some* products assembled in the US. I think that is what is shown by the MHW images.

And... this changes all the time Osprey backpacks used to say 100% made in the USA, now they say something else, I believe.

If it matters that much, you have to call the Manufacturer up, but you are right, getting a 100% made in america product is pretty hard to.

 

[koby]

I can think of some "Madison Ave. name brand crap" that is still made in the US:

That's a premium brand if I've ever heard of one.

 

[rivrmutt]

Snap-on

and look what people pay for the brand. TOP DOLLAR!!! Not saying that is wrong. Just don't complain when thing are over priced because we want everthing MADE IN US. The problem is there is nobody in the US willing to work for the pennies that manufacturers pay in 3rd world countries.
That's why made in US items cost more, And don't equate that with quality. I've some pretty crappy US made stuff before.

and by the way some Snap-On tools are made over seas, cordless drills for starters.

 

[utahdog2003]

People are just hung up on the cache of 'Made in the USA'...I'd love it if that still meant something from a quality perspective, but the reality is it only helps keep jobs here (not that that aint a good thing)...As for the quality of products made overseas, it really can't be judged by country, only by factory. There are a ton of quality products and labels manufactured in other countries and why not? Why would we expect Snap-On et al to be the only game in town when the Chinese are quickly becoming a more industrialized nation than we are? I was in the Home Depot the other day and they have a 'pro' series of hand tools made in China that look like total Matco knock-offs...really nice finish! Now I know they aren't the same caliber...at least not yet, but the quality of the product (just like Hyundai, Samsung and others) is geting better by the generation. Not only that, but have you ever been to a bar or burger joint in a manufacturing town when the shifts change? Believing that some of these pigs make better products just because they are in America is ethnocentrist. The chinese aren't putting satelites in space using the same pot-metal crap tools they made 30 years ago, and the tallest building in the world, which I believe is in Malaysia, aint built with bamboo. Right now I say Snap-On is worth the premium, but they need to watch their mirrors lest they become the next Levi Strauss or Curtis Mathes. And the moment SO opens a plant in outside the US to manufacture stuff FOR the US, then...the next TNF they will be. Once upon a time Facom and Hazet were the shit, and Snap-On was what you settled for from the dude who delivered!

I buy american when I have the opportunity to get what I want without sacrifice and I'll GLADLY pay more to get a better product, but I'm not too convinced it means as much as it used to. Before you cats flame me for bashing the american worker, just think a minute. Look out in your driveway...the only americans pulling home a salary from anything associated with the green oval do so from a desk, be it executive or sales.

Now with all that said, if I went to the Ferrari dealer to buy a Scaglietti (like that would happen!) and the window sticker said "Parts Content 80% Taiwan" and the asking price didn't reflect that, well thats just corporate "Bait and Switch"! Buyer beware! If TNF has convinced you with their snappy adds of young hot twentysomethings sharing a hot chocolate inside a tent on the 'Everest Soundstage', that you need their junk and that its worth 500 bucks no matter what it cost in labor and materials then you get what you deserve...and empty wallet and more Corporate America junk for your garage.

 

[rivrmutt]

Amen Brother!!!!

 

[bri]

Ah, where to start with this thread. All I can say is that it will be a fair long time before China is anywhere near as close to us in industrial techniques and quality. This is across the board, from clothing to tools to autos.

Snap-on and outdoor products made in the USA will continue to lead the industries with high-tech materials and manufacturing processes. The lessers will continue to copy until they can work out patent and other issues.

I can't tell you how many Marmot, Osprey, Mtn Hardware 100% china made rip-offs sold at REI that I have returned because of bad materials and assembly. Interestingly enough the good old made in the USA, high quality and premium price stuff always lasts longer. Fact is the reason why people have stuff made in China and other countries is to save money. So if you need to save money too, go ahead and buy the shit. But don't bitch when you have to replace it.

 

[Blueboy]

All I can say is that it will be a fair long time before China is anywhere near as close to us in industrial techniques and quality. This is across the board, from clothing to tools to autos.

possibly local manufacturing companies, yet, we now have 2 plants in China and the quality of the end product is as good as any of our other plants in other Countries. its the infrastructure and material costs that keep the overal manufacturing costs down.

our product is also not clothing.


Jaime

 

[bri]

possibly local manufacturing companies, yet, we now have 2 plants in China and the quality of the end product is as good as any of our other plants in other Countries. its the infrastructure and material costs that keep the overal manufacturing costs down.

our product is also not clothing.


Jaime

Sure can you find something good made there? Yes. In general I have had very, very poor luck with Chinese outdoor products, especially clothing.

 

[utahdog2003]

Sure can you find something good made there? Yes. In general I have had very, very poor luck with Chinese outdoor products, especially clothing.

thats because your stuff wasn't made in the same facility that their space program hand tools were!

Seriously, the thing to remember about China (lesson learned while working 10 years in bicycle industry) is that there are hundreds of plants in China pumping out crap to specs set by international companies. We would send plans to China for samples of bike components, and the samples would always come back as an exact LITERAL interpretation of the plans. If we left something out, some step in deburring or in heat treating etc, so did they. If the American company sets low money saving standards for materials and manufacturing, then typically the Chinese factory works to meet that standard, and will provide no more than the expected, contracted minimum standard. The spin we live with here is that its the Chinese factory that screwed up, when in reality it is usually the contracting company's cost cutting efforts which hurt quality.

I think its a cultural barrier, American companies cant believe that Chinese plants would leave a button untied, but the Americans are in China to save on expenses, the Chinese know this, and in many cases assemble with the flaw intact knowingly, assuming that the American company wants that corner cut. If a clothing company takes for granted how a stich run is tied off, then so will the factory, because it aint in the specs...result is seams that pull out, buttons that pop off etc. (lets face it, what does Abercrombie and Fitch care if your buttons fall off after 3 washings?...the shirt is so eaten away by frat puke and out of style by then anyway!!).

If you design a box wrench, specify forged 4130, water jet cut and double chromed and laser etched, then thats what you get. You specify pot metal casting, half soak chrome and stamped markings, then thats what you get. The difference is the company that paid for the tool to be made, not the Chinese plant that made the tool. The reason Chinese plants are so popular in todays manufacturing is that they will make shit to your exact specifications, even if you specificationc are shit. (probably make jokes the whole time..."man, some fat yank is gonna bust a knuckle if he uses this POS socket! HAHAHA!)

If China wanted to improve its rep, then it should start stamping tools with; "Made in China of pot metal castings and substandard plastics per design spec from WalMart. So Sorry" Maybe the TNF bag is a POS because TNF won't pay to have it made the right way? Hell, half the time that Denali Fleece is used for movie theater warmth only...

 

[cmlmtn]

James is right. I have been to wheelchair plants all over the world, and of the Chineese plants I can honestly say that they make them to whatever specification they are given. The FDA (and the consumer) would not put up with inferior medical equipment and over 90% of that equipment is imported.
Regardless of where it is made, the consumer drives the market and the cost is a reflection of quality.
Buying American is a a choice that we all have, but that choice shouldn't be made from ignorance. To say "Chineese stuff is crap" is ignorant. To say "I buy American to support a local economy" is respectable.

 

[syoung]

James hit it right on the head... absolutely!

Stuff could be made in the USA if the people that run the company didn't have to pocket so much out of greed (remember Tyco?). Then the unions will come in and ruin it all- they'd have to jack up wages to take their cut, then extort concessions from the company- then the company tanks.
Not many people want to go to the trouble of building up a company that would have to run on slim margins and profits just to employ Americans. Most people I see don't do their job worth a shit anyway- more than half the people I deal with at their place of employment are lazy and don't give a shit.