Problems w/ off-roading??

[mwatters]

I have a 2005 LR3, and did some heavy off-roading this past week in uwharrie and tellico. Huge dust problem that caked my MAF sensor and put me in reduced engine mode (for multiple days, had to hit 2 dealers to clear codes and replace sensors). Basically limp home mode. What would you all think are the top ten issues to be concerned with for back up parts on this highly computerized machine.

I have the NITTO's, ARB Bar, Ramsey winch and a few other toys on the girl..

 

[gil stevens]

wow. thats first ive heard of that issue. thats some scary shit.. the best back up parts would be a full D1 on a trailer in tow

 

[bterpstra]

I've found the MAF sensor to be a weak spot on my DII as well as the LR3. Might be worth keeping a spare?

 

[BaldEagle]

was it from ingest of dust or was dust caked on the outside of it?

 

[mwatters]

was it from ingest of dust or was dust caked on the outside of it?

caked inside and out:ack: sensor and new air filter toasted. Sucks that you have to have a snorkel to go down a dirt road I guess.

 

[BaldEagle]

uwharrie gets really dusty when its dry. i guess the only thing you can really do in those conditions is take the filter and blow it out each time you get back to camp. or replace it. even if you have a snorkel

 

[nateb006]

Stock filter or K&N ?

 

[mwatters]

Stock filter or K&N ?

Paper, I already know how bad K&N are in the truck with the oil on the MAF. This was a new sensor and filter, put in on friday and by Saturday afternoon, Reduced Engine Performance light was on. I don't have a snorkel, but I will after this week to help any way I can with this. I have been checking the UK sites since this happened and this is a common thing in the desert I guess. They use a foam filter to help. I am one of the test pigs, so be it.

I don't have room for 2 trucks and this is great for my job. I only do 80/20 on vs. off roading. So this really is the best truck for my situation. Just stinks all the same. It is what it is..

 

[XtremeMarine]

I have found the best compromise is a KandN air filter, BUT DO NOT oil it; and a snorkel. But I still keep a spare MAF in the parts box just in case. That's on a DII with a 4.6 conversion. But I would do the same thing with an LR3. We have one young lady who wheels with us in Fl, that drives a 3, and the general concensus from all of us was she should get a snorkel. She has one, and thias season is drought dry; so we'll see if it helps her.

 

[bterpstra]

I have found the best compromise is a KandN air filter, BUT DO NOT oil it; and a snorkel. But I still keep a spare MAF in the parts box just in case. That's on a DII with a 4.6 conversion. But I would do the same thing with an LR3. We have one young lady who wheels with us in Fl, that drives a 3, and the general concensus from all of us was she should get a snorkel. She has one, and thias season is drought dry; so we'll see if it helps her.

See the below link:
http://www.rubicon-trail.com/public/...er test.html

Why would you use an unoiled K&N? Wouldn't that let in way to much dust? The link above is just one person's test, but it would appear even an oiled K&N is inferior protection vs most other brands. Wouldn't a normal paper filter with a snorkel be a superior solution vs a snorkel and non-oiled K&N? I don't think even K&N would recommend a non-oiled usage.

Methinks there is something to your suggestion that I'm not understanding.

Also, anyone know of any other independent ISO 5011 tests on K&N filters? I used to own a Mercedes G-series and the K&N was generally considered verboten & not acceptable on the G's.

Personally, until I see some independent statistical verification of the K&N's efficiency, load bearing capacity etc. I would steer well clear.

Keep in mind, I'm a banker not a mechanic and a far cry from an engineer.

 

[bterpstra]

http://www.knfilters.com/warrantyletter.htm

Interesting page from K&N's own website. Apparently, Dodge among others has declined warranty coverage (on their turbodiesels specifically) where K&N filters have been used. Interestingly, K&N's defense rests NOT on the filter's effectiveness but rather on the Moss warranty act which prohibits a manufacturer from requiring specific OEM replacement parts for normal maintenance unless such parts are provided the consumer free of charge.

Now, I get my filters on my new LR3 free. That would seem to imply that Rover under the law would be within its rights to deny the warranty for any excessive engine wear.

I'm just not understanding the K&N thing, unless it's just that there's a set of users that are willing to accept a higher risk of accelerated engine wear in exchange for a few extra horses. I won't do that, but I have no issue with people that make that informed choice.

 

[XtremeMarine]

An unoiled filter would let in much more dust, and I would never suggest it without the snorkel. But the snorkel's height cuts down in a huge way how much dest can get ingested by the MAF. It has worked well so far. I have had KandN's on cars for 17 years, and would not use any other filter. But they do have their limitations on certain types of vehicles.

 

[D Chapman]

An unoiled K&N is like engine sucide. That is one of the most retarded ideas I have EVER read on this site. If you're not going to oil the damn thing, why run one at all............

You're a stupid fuck, XM. Go away if you're going to give information like this.

"Never put a K&N Filter in service without oiling it. The filter will not function properly without being oiled. Use only K&N Filter Oil or the filter will not function properly. K&N Filter Oil is a unique blend of mineral and organic oil base stocks and special polymers that form a very efficient “tack barrier.” Red dye is added to show areas of oil application. Eventually, the dye fades but the oil remains to filter the air. Do not use automatic transmission fluid, any kind of motor oil or diesel fuel to oil a K&N Filter. Do not use “WD-40”, “LPS” or any othertype of light-weight spray lubricants to oil a K&N Filter. Any of those products will damage the filter or degrade its filtering ability. A K&N Filter used on an engine that is regularly operated in a fine dust environment will require frequent re-oiling of the filter’s clean side in between cleanings."

"We are aware of the “urban myth” (K&N News Story) created by a few dealerships that a vehicle's MAF sensor can be contaminated by K&N filter oil. No evidence has ever been provided to support this “myth” and three years of diagnostic testing by K&N has shown that not only is this allegation not real, it is not even possible. In our opinion, it is an excuse for a dealership and/or the vehicle manufacturer to avoid a legitimate warranty repair. In the last 4 years, we have sold over 10,000,000 lifetime air filters and received only a few hundred calls from consumers who are having dealership or service provider challenges. We believe that Dealership's or service provider's real incentive may be to discourage the use of reusable products so they can sell disposable products over and over. In order to provide consumers with added comfort that they will not be placed in a bad position by a improper warranty denial, we offer our Consumer Protection Pledge."

 

[JamesWyatt]

I have a 2005 LR3, and did some heavy off-roading this past week in uwharrie and tellico. Huge dust problem that caked my MAF sensor and put me in reduced engine mode (for multiple days, had to hit 2 dealers to clear codes and replace sensors). Basically limp home mode...

Just the excuse I needed to add a snorkel. Thanks.

...What would you all think are the top ten issues to be concerned with for back up parts on this highly computerized machine...

I would recommend some essential recovery equipment and another driver to pull you back to the pavement to wait for Land Rover Roadside Assistance. Or the D1 on a trailer thing works, too.

A more specific thread going on over at disco3.co.uk: Essential kit for Off-Roading?

 

[mwatters]

I was thinking along the lines of MAF sensor, starter, alternator, cv joint, etc. things that would kill the ride for the day. These for a top ten. I did read that thread, was kind of no brainer stuff. I want the real skinny for a kit.

 

[XtremeMarine]

Chapman; considering I am a certified Porsche technician, an ASE certified mechanic, and owned an IMSA and SCCA race teams for years, I'll gladly give my informed advice on questions I can answer. I have never lost MAF's or engines because of not oiling a filter, or because of the type of filters I have used. And if it wasn't in an off-road application, I have always oiled the filters. The reason to use one unoiled in our trucks is simply because it won't clog up or break down like a paper element will. Also, the KandN design breathes and flows better than paper.
You are allowed, advised, and encouraged to have your own opinions. If you don't like mine, or don't agree with them; that's fine too. But if you want to spew your vile comments, and unintelligent banter; keep your refrain to your clients. Since only dead people have the time to waste on your useless comments.

 

[bterpstra]

I still can't see the logic behind using one unoiled. It's like saying I don't want to use any filter at all because they just get plugged up. They're supposed to plug up - they're filters.

True, K&N's breathe slightly better, but according most sources (including K&N) it's at the sacrifice of filtration efficiency. Porsche tech or not, I'd have to think you're in the minority on that one.

Back to one of my earlier comments then - you're happy to exchange engine wear for a few ponies. I can accept that, but it would be good to make clear that it's the tradeoff you're making when you make recommendations. The original poster here may not be willing to make the same compromise.

I know I'm not, which is why a K&N filter will never see the inside of one of my vehicles. Mostly because I'm a maintenance freak & like to get 200k on a motor.

FYI - my old mercedes diesel hit 400k miles & didn't burn oil except for highway speeds on very hot days. When she ran fast & hot, she'd burn 1 qt in 1k miles. Not bad for an old girl. I doubt I would have that kind of wear on a K&N.

Regards,
BT

 

[XtremeMarine]

BT; all very good and valid points. I am willing to compromise more and accept more trade-offs then most owners. I was not ever trying to tell the original poster to do it my way. Just giving him one more, IMO, to add to the list. LOL.

 

[crown14]

An unoiled K&N is like engine sucide. That is one of the most retarded ideas I have EVER read on this site.

x2

You only need to understand what the filter is made of and how it works to know it HAS TO BE OILED to filter worth a shit. Even then it dosent filter that well. An unoiled K&N is probably equivalent to letting your engine breathe through a worn out dirty sock.


More interesting shit:
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[bterpstra]

While we're on the topic of offroading issues, does anyone know what LR has done with the axles on an LR3. Mine as the HD package with the locking rear diff. Axles on my defender werent strong enough stock for lockers. Wondering about the LRX shafts.

That would seem to be one possible weak link as well as the MAF etc.