Since when is this ok?
- Thread starter Drillbit
- Start date
Dan,
Let's be honest, how many civilians now think it's stylish to dress up like special forces? Its now a from of style, we live in a pop consumer society so now there are stores in almost every town that sell all the tactical shit. I'm no too worried about douchebags thinking it makes their 4" cock bigger to dress up...I'm worried about the underlying reason. Identify and address the reasons people and cops think it's neato to dress up like special forces.
The cops do what they want how they want when they want because we the people allow it. We need to stop focusing solely on the problem and come together on a solution by addressing the cause.
Why did a police force use a bomb disposal robot to blow someone up instead of an incipacitating device??? Because nobody stopped them from thinking it was wrong in the first place!!
We give idiots all the power in the world by electing them. Shit there are people sitting in jail with life sentences for simple possession. Why? Because in some states 2 prior misdemeanors equal a felony charge on the third offense. Why? Because we elected the district attorney's who enforce those stupid fucking laws that were enacted by other elected officials!!! It's insanity
Let's be honest, how many civilians now think it's stylish to dress up like special forces? Its now a from of style, we live in a pop consumer society so now there are stores in almost every town that sell all the tactical shit. I'm no too worried about douchebags thinking it makes their 4" cock bigger to dress up...I'm worried about the underlying reason. Identify and address the reasons people and cops think it's neato to dress up like special forces.
The cops do what they want how they want when they want because we the people allow it. We need to stop focusing solely on the problem and come together on a solution by addressing the cause.
Why did a police force use a bomb disposal robot to blow someone up instead of an incipacitating device??? Because nobody stopped them from thinking it was wrong in the first place!!
We give idiots all the power in the world by electing them. Shit there are people sitting in jail with life sentences for simple possession. Why? Because in some states 2 prior misdemeanors equal a felony charge on the third offense. Why? Because we elected the district attorney's who enforce those stupid fucking laws that were enacted by other elected officials!!! It's insanity
I was showing how attitudes towards policing differ in this area vs yours. You are concerned about a cow getting shot by overpowered police and I was showing a similar situation that was deemed acceptable.
Agree with this.
Two things have happened in the last 20 years IMO.
1) the "militarization" of the police. Lot's of high speed, low drag, tactical shit. Brought on by Homeland security money - everyone plans for the worst case terrorism plot, or school shooting. Anyone dept that doesn't is looked at like they don't give a shit. Not good politics. Also, throw in the "overwhelming force for safety," aspect. Which has led to the transformation of cop as protector to cop as warrior.
Very different mindsets. (Hell, google "Cop warrior vs protector" and see how many articles written by police claim that they HAVE to be warriors.)
Remember watching movies, police shows from the 70s/80s, hell even the 90s, about detectives doing a drug bust? it was a few cops, and in the house they went. Now? It's like SEAL Team Six going after Bin Laden. For dime bags.
IMO, there are waayy to many SWAT teams doing no-knock warrants for petty drug dealers, small crimes. It's a recipe for disaster, and in a lot of cases it is.
Radly Balko has written a lot on this topic (he currently reports for the Washington Post). Here's a good article he wrote in the WSJ: http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519904?mg=id-wsj
2) The use of police/fines to generate revenue. The DOJ report on Ferguson wasn't a big deal about how they responded, but the fact that the police were used basically as shake down artists by the municipalities to generate the majority of their revenue.
Or "civil forfeiture" laws. Drillbit better be careful with that $10k he carries to buy cars. All the police have to say is that "based on their experience, its for drugs," and that money is theirs. No crime need be committed, no evidence of wrong doing, no charges whatsoever.
Really all this does is create the mindset that the Police are out to get you, and that the police are under siege by everyone else, which makes for a not good situation.
Reading about the Dallas PD, the current chief has done a lot to build back relationships with the community - he cut back traffic patrols (resulting in revenue being cut in half) to focus on community patrols, and by all accounts, the police were very accommodating with the protesters (putting up facebook/twitter shots of police and protesters). Contrast that with Baton Rouge where police were arresting people for walking in the street:
http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7FF2/production/_90345723_mediaitem90345722.jpg
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I'll never forget flying into Newark airport about 6 months after 9/11 and seeing cops (soliders?) with M16/AR15s and thinking:
"Jesus, is this what we have to do now?"
That was after flying out of Houston, with no such drama. Now, it's not uncommon to see such weapons/patrols in major cities.
"Jesus, is this what we have to do now?"
That was after flying out of Houston, with no such drama. Now, it's not uncommon to see such weapons/patrols in major cities.
In my younger days I was told on many occasions by DPD of every race and sex to go directly home, turn the volume down, call a cab and gtfo, etc. When I was "breaking in" my last 4.6 build I thought for sure my disco was going to be impounded, but it was a simple "dont ever do that again."
Fear is a very very very good marketing tool. It replaced the 'you deserve' catch line a while back. McCarthyism is alive and well.
Somehow the powers that be have scared the citizens to believe cops need as much firepower as necessary.
Are you white and speak English? Were you cordial and treated him like he was super God?
I'm STILL not sure I see a difference between "blowing someone up" and their application of a large caliber round to the head turning it inside out? Both weapons accomplish the EXACT same thing, namely the death of the "bad guy". I'm fine with that.
It's been alluded to hear in an above reply - WE are dressing all "tactical", WE are the ones buying 1st person shooter games, WE are the ones decorating our guns with all sorts of "tactical" combat shit, WE are the ones that want to have the right to arm ourselves however we want, as much as we want, and in any manner we want. Cops are just trying to keep up with US. Don't ridicule a cop for having the same weaponry we have. (Now, not many of us have C4 but I'm sure there's some nut-job fighting for our "right" to have it.) We don't have a "bad" cop problem, or an "over-militarized" cop problem. We have a DUMB-cop problem! It's too fucking easy to be a cop! Period. You offer some poor sap with little to no future - or education- in a bum-fuck town $30k a year, a uniform, a "cool" gun, and a police car and you'll continue to have a ready supply of dumb cops! It should be an honor to be a cop, an accomplishment, and a privilege. I'm afraid it's just turned into a somewhat "cool" job.
It's been alluded to hear in an above reply - WE are dressing all "tactical", WE are the ones buying 1st person shooter games, WE are the ones decorating our guns with all sorts of "tactical" combat shit, WE are the ones that want to have the right to arm ourselves however we want, as much as we want, and in any manner we want. Cops are just trying to keep up with US. Don't ridicule a cop for having the same weaponry we have. (Now, not many of us have C4 but I'm sure there's some nut-job fighting for our "right" to have it.) We don't have a "bad" cop problem, or an "over-militarized" cop problem. We have a DUMB-cop problem! It's too fucking easy to be a cop! Period. You offer some poor sap with little to no future - or education- in a bum-fuck town $30k a year, a uniform, a "cool" gun, and a police car and you'll continue to have a ready supply of dumb cops! It should be an honor to be a cop, an accomplishment, and a privilege. I'm afraid it's just turned into a somewhat "cool" job.
I would also ask this - I'm wondering how many of us here would answer or respond to the recommendation that was given to the Dallas police chief.
Put yourself in HIS shoes: You've got thousands of people running for their lives, you've got innocent bystanders shot. You've got 5 of your own men lying dead in the street. It's nighttime and you have one of the larger metropolitan areas to protect from what appears to be a very effective shooter. One that has PROVEN his skill on your guys. He is laughing at you negotiators. He's singing over the phone. He's TOLD you he wants to kill more cops. He's asked you how many he "got". An officer comes up with an idea to neutralize this threat once and for all. How many here would actually sit down, take a "time out" and "debate" whether using C4 was "the right thing to do". How many would take the time to think about the "precedent" it may set. You get paid to keep your citizens safe and get your men home to their families safe each night. You DON'T get paid to "philosophize" during a time like this. I say good job! I'll worry about "crazy" cops with robots and C4 coming for me later
Put yourself in HIS shoes: You've got thousands of people running for their lives, you've got innocent bystanders shot. You've got 5 of your own men lying dead in the street. It's nighttime and you have one of the larger metropolitan areas to protect from what appears to be a very effective shooter. One that has PROVEN his skill on your guys. He is laughing at you negotiators. He's singing over the phone. He's TOLD you he wants to kill more cops. He's asked you how many he "got". An officer comes up with an idea to neutralize this threat once and for all. How many here would actually sit down, take a "time out" and "debate" whether using C4 was "the right thing to do". How many would take the time to think about the "precedent" it may set. You get paid to keep your citizens safe and get your men home to their families safe each night. You DON'T get paid to "philosophize" during a time like this. I say good job! I'll worry about "crazy" cops with robots and C4 coming for me later
Probably not politically correct but I laughed the other morning NBC were interviewing people at the scene in Dallas and one guy said " What are we supposed to Do? Teach our kids to listen to what the police say." Struck me a funny.
I would also ask this - I'm wondering how many of us here would answer or respond to the recommendation that was given to the Dallas police chief.
Put yourself in HIS shoes: You've got thousands of people running for their lives, you've got innocent bystanders shot. You've got 5 of your own men lying dead in the street. It's nighttime and you have one of the larger metropolitan areas to protect from what appears to be a very effective shooter. One that has PROVEN his skill on your guys. He is laughing at you negotiators. He's singing over the phone. He's TOLD you he wants to kill more cops. He's asked you how many he "got". An officer comes up with an idea to neutralize this threat once and for all. How many here would actually sit down, take a "time out" and "debate" whether using C4 was "the right thing to do". How many would take the time to think about the "precedent" it may set. You get paid to keep your citizens safe and get your men home to their families safe each night. You DON'T get paid to "philosophize" during a time like this. I say good job! I'll worry about "crazy" cops with robots and C4 coming for me later
While I am finding Dan to have some really good points the above is where I am with this. Shit, if it were me I'd say do we have any thermobaric rounds as by that point of the event I'd want the bastard to die from his organs being jellified. A lb of C4 was rather judicious since I doubt anyone would have sweated them hitting it with about 15 40mm HEDP rounds.
I also don't think its but so likely to proliferate-the asset seizure stuff is easy to do and has financial incentive for departments and municipalities. Employing a robot, crimping off electric blasting caps, etc is all stuff that is fairly specialized in the EOD community-i.e. the average SWAT guy probably isn't going to do it given competing demands.
Jb, you and I are thinking the same thing. It's a minimum wage job it's not going to attract the best and brightest....much like our military.
But you can't deny that we elect the people that allow cops, mainly sheriff departments, to do pretty much whatever they want with little to no accountability.
In Frederick the sheriff department has murdered an autistic child for fucks sake. What did we do? We reelected the sheriff because he wants all the Mexicans out of Frederick.
State troopers are required a degree in criminal science not sheriffs or deputies.... The sheriff is elected and hires deputies.
If you are referring to me I'm not alluding anything in out right saying its our fault. We allow this shit to continue and the most we do about it is complain on disco web!
Personally I will never understand why we use deadly force when a concussion grenade would've incipacitated him then let the judge and jury do its job not the law enforcers.
I would also ask this - I'm wondering how many of us here would answer or respond to the recommendation that was given to the Dallas police chief.
Put yourself in HIS shoes: You've got thousands of people running for their lives, you've got innocent bystanders shot. You've got 5 of your own men lying dead in the street. It's nighttime and you have one of the larger metropolitan areas to protect from what appears to be a very effective shooter. One that has PROVEN his skill on your guys. He is laughing at you negotiators. He's singing over the phone. He's TOLD you he wants to kill more cops. He's asked you how many he "got". An officer comes up with an idea to neutralize this threat once and for all. How many here would actually sit down, take a "time out" and "debate" whether using C4 was "the right thing to do". How many would take the time to think about the "precedent" it may set. You get paid to keep your citizens safe and get your men home to their families safe each night. You DON'T get paid to "philosophize" during a time like this. I say good job! I'll worry about "crazy" cops with robots and C4 coming for me later
Come on man. He is in his position because he should be able to exercise critical thinking more so than me or you.
Your comment leads me to believe you're absolutely fine with our law enforcement no longer even considering non lethal means?
Once again until we start addressing the underlying reasons we will remain a police state. what actions led to this situation and what can we do to stop a situation like this?
When a man shoots 5 cops dead "non-lethal" options are no longer on the table.
How much time do we allow this "critical" thinking to go on? He's got for officers dead, a shooter on the phone telling him he wants more cops dead while singing songs and laughing. How much "critical thinking" is the shooter going to allow the chief?
How much time do we allow this "critical" thinking to go on? He's got for officers dead, a shooter on the phone telling him he wants more cops dead while singing songs and laughing. How much "critical thinking" is the shooter going to allow the chief?
Flash-bangs work best on folks that aren't keyed up; this guy was keyed up and alert-quite possibly ready to engaged (or use his alleged IED(s)) if he was hit with such a device. Why take the chance given the circumstances? Saying flash bang him is like saying taze him-sometimes it works, but it definitely isn't like the movies. Same-same with gas, a lot depends on location and ability to effectively employ it-far from a perfect solution and we aren't like the Russians where we'll use 'incapacitating' agents that really are just somewhat less than lethal (or rather are lethal when in high enough dose).
At the end of all this the Chief made the right call with the right tool at the time.
The detonation wasn't in the same area as the shooter.
Shooter was on one side of a wall. They moved the robot to other side of wall, and blew the wall out.