Texaco cold climate PAS fluid vs. Pentosin. Resolved?

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
8,633
75
AZ
My power steering pump started groaning last week and I noticed that I was at the minimum fill level on the reservoir. After searching threads here on dweb I bought a bottle of Pentosin CHF-11s for $20. When I opened the reservoir and tested the fluid, it was brown in color, not green like the Pentosin. Then when I got home I noticed a big puddle of brown fluid on my garage floor. The pump had developed quite a leak and has since been replaced. by the way, I also called the dealer and they have the OEM fluid in stock for $29/liter.
 

Papillon

Well-known member
Dec 19, 2005
88
3
Here is a link to Texaco’s Cold Climate Power Steering Fluid which meets Land Rover Specifications.

http://www.texacobaltic.eu/en/products/cars/power-steering-fluids/cold-climate-power-steering-fluid.html

This is helpful because it also list other OEM specifications that this fluid meets. In particular, GM 9985835. Therefore, if one could identify the GM Power Steering fluid which meets these specifications it should be able to be used in place of the Texaco product.

A series of Google searches have revealed that the GM product that we are looking for is ‘GM Goodwrench Cold Climate Power Steering Fluid’. (Quart Size Item #: 12345867; Pint Size Item #: 12345866) Here is a link where they can be purchased, although they may also be available at any GM Dealership.

http://paceperformance.com/i-5134256-12345867-gm-goodwrench-cold-climate-power-steering-fluid-1-quart-container.html

In addition, I found this product interesting from our friends ‘down under’.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/PAS Fluid JAN 2010.pdf

The exclusive distrubiturer of Penrite Oil products in America is Restoration Supply Company out of Escondido, CA. (www.RestorationStuff.com Ph: 800-306-7008) So I gave them a call. At this moment they do not stock Penrite’s PAS fluid. But the Tech person found the product ‘interesting’ and thought he would order a case. So you might want to check with them.

Lastly, here is another related site. Note the Land Rover power steering info on Page 3. Alas, I do not know the source of this information, only that it is being published here.

http://www.328lube.com/mighty/pdfs/QuickLubeGuide.pdf

Good health,

Papillon
 

Urban Panzer

Well-known member
Feb 1, 2008
161
0
uk
www.discovery2.co.uk
Was looking at the Texaco page before going to work, did not have enough time to x ref it all at the time, but after a little bit of searching.......
if you look under their ATF fluids, ie Texamatic 7045E which meets Dexron III spec (specified in W/ Manual) that is also suitable for PAS systems which use mineral oils.

http://www.texacobaltic.eu/en/products/cars/atf-fluids/texamatic-7045e.html

So back to non-synthetic ATF in the PAS will be fine.

Looking at the multifunctional ATF 4291, which incidently is Dexron II spec which is also in the W/Manual...... is also suitable in PAS systems.

Click on the link to "choose the right oil",

Look up the Disco 2 and for the PAS is................ Texamatic 7045E which is ATF...

http://www.olyslager-lubricants.nl/Texaco/Result.aspx?sLang=1&TypeID=157624

So in a nutshell, NON-synthetic ATF which meets Dexron II or III spec will be fine in the PAS, and as that and the ACE use the same fluid from new, then ATF in the ACE should pose no issues either.
 

robertofollia

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2005
527
0
My home is where my Disco is
Be careful about the CHF-11s.
It's top quality fully synthetic but viscosity is very very low compared to the other one (MB 236.3 spec).
If you take a look at penrite's website the pentosin CHF-11S equivalent is listed as LDAS
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/product...on-fluids/ldas

data sheet
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdf...Oct 2011.pdf

maybe it's too thin for ACE, as viscosity at both 40 and 100 deg ºC is way too low, and does not conform to the Chrysler MS5931, GM low temperature specs, and most important ZF TE-ML09 which is the one indicated for PAS.
That might be the cause why some people complained about the pump going noisier.

I had a noisy pump due to putrid fluid, developed a leak in valve block, had to refill with cheapo ATF D-II as was going to rebuild it anyway. With the mix the sound vanished.
Later on the fix was performed (new seals, modulator, one pipe and new fluid)

As Penrite's list PSF001 is listed as direct ACE formulated fluid, and that one as a 236.3 MB compliant, and the Fuchs PSF is MB 236.3 compliant as well as MB341 (which is very low temp fluid as well) I would stick with Penrite and Fuchs (and are plain DII as well)

Even british parts sell plain ATF DII under STC50519
http://www.britishparts.co.uk/.sc/ms...EERING FLUID
which results being comma AQM automatic transmission fluid (plain DII)
see photos and white label
http://www.commaoil.com/productsguide/view/6/190


1.- The OEM Texaco 14315 or 33270, made both from Unobtanium, is (or was) available 66% cheaper thorugh DAF truck dealers as Cold Climate PAS fluid, which complied with LR's 14315-33270. Seems it was available in 20-litre drums but... now seems only in 100-litre ones.

TEXACO DATA:
PRODUCT INFORMATION TYPICAL DATA COLD CLIMATE POWER STEERING FLUID 14315 (33270 is the same, only changes label)
Code number 2261
ETL - number Test methods 14315
Density, 15Deg C, kg/lASTM D1298 0.862
Flash Point COC, Deg C ISO 2593 215
Pour Point, Deg C ISO 3016 -51
Aniline Point, Deg C ISO 2977 91
Visc, Kinematic, 40Deg C, mm2/s ISO 3104 25.6
Visc, Kinematic, 100Deg C, mm2/s ISO 3104 6.4
Visc, Brookfield, -30Deg C, mPa.s ASTM D2983 1300
Visc, Brookfield, -40Deg C, mPa.s ASTM D2983 4500
Viscosity Index ISO 2909 196
Copper Corrosion, 3h, 100C ASTM D0130 1a
Foam Seq I, IAB, ml ISO 6247 0
Foam Seq I, AFT 10' ST, ml ISO 6247 0
Foam Seq II, IAB, ml ISO 6247 10
Foam Seq II, AFT 10' ST, ml ISO 6247 0
Foam Seq III, IAB, ml ISO 6247 0
Foam Seq III, AFT 10' ST, ml ISO 6247 0
Shear Stability, 20h CEC L45T93 .
Visc. Kinematic, 100Deg C, mm2/s 4.4
FZG Damaged Load, a/8.3/90 DIN 51354 12
Elemental Analysis X-RAY
Calcium, %w 0.008
Chlorine, %w 0.006
Phosphorus, %w 0.19
Zinc, %w <0> 100 °C DIN ISO 2592
Pour point < -50 °C DIN ISO 3116

In Spain there are 3 kinds of Transmax, (Dual, Multi vehicle and Z). I have downloaded the PDS and datas are not the same as the oz- version.
I will be phoning texaco Spain to find alternatives.

3.- Penrite's PSF001 is more expensive than the STC50519 genyouwine stuff, in Spain.

After having called FEBI (Ferdinand Bilstein, Germans, who have a very good oil range) and being told they don't stock that one (ahh the joys of 33270)

-As Urban Panzer did, I contacted TExaco baltic, where the oil is being manufactured and stocked, Got access to PDS, and guess what, it's almost the same as Texaco Texamatic 7045E (only a little bit viscosity for ambient temperatures we will never experience in continental Europe).
So there goes the PDS:

http://www.sjk.com.my/specifications...atic_7045E.pdf
Color Red
Pour Point, °C -51
Viscosity, Brookfield
mPa.s @ -40°C 17500
Viscosity, Kinematic
mm²/s @ 40°C 33.8
mm²/s @ 100°C 7.4
Viscosity Index 194

Performance standards
Allison C-4 fluid (Approval No. C4-30353901)
• General Motors GM6417M
(obsolete DEXRON®-IIIG)
• MAN Standard 339 Type F
• Voith 55.6335 (DIWA and Midimat)
• ZF TE-ML 02F, 04D, 17C
• ZF Lenksysteme TE-ML 09A, 09B.

The most important is being TE-ML 09B compliant, which is for steering racks.
Even the TExaco oil chooser states the TExamatic 7045E as direct use fluid for PAS and stability control in the D2, D3 and RRS.

The groaning and moaning from other ATF DII or DIII fluid are usually related to the fluid not being Saginaw and ZF TE-ML09 compliant. The saginaw equals to norm GM 9985010
There is another fluid, very similar to the Texaco unobtanium,
called Ravenol PSF-Y fluid
http://www.ravenol.de/products?part=435
For sale at 39,95 euro/5 litres (or 50 USD/5 quarts)

It's full synthetic (I don't like that)

BUT...Complies with the following specs

VW G 009300A2
Mercedes A0009898803 (which is MB236.3)
Chrysler 05098158A
Chrysler MS-5931
Chrysler MS-9933
Chrysler 04883077
GM 9985010
GM 89020661
GM 1050017
Texaco TL 4634
HONDA 08206-9002
HONDA 08285-P99-01Z-T1

The original MB 236.3 fluid is semi-synth, and many of these specs belong to semi-synth fluids. So maybe (maybe) could work on ours.
Viscosity and properties, and viscosity index (VI) are nearly the same as the TExaco stuff

PDS:
http://www.ravenol-shop.de/WebRoot/Store5/Shops/61107442/4E5A/5BEF/6F1F/49EC/CD6F/C0A8/28BE/A9AB/tds_211123_PSF-Y_Fluid.pdf
translated from german
Color brown
density at 20°C g/ml 0,847 DIN 51 757
viscosity at 40°C mm²/s 34,5 DIN 51 562
viscosity at 100°C mm²/s 7,5 DIN 51 562
Flash point (COC) °C 200 DIN ISO 2592
Pourpoint °C -51 DIN ISO 3016


Any takers?
The Texaco is semi synth.
Or should we go to the Texamatic 7045E and forget about it?

Only for those lucky enough to live in the USA
Castrol markets the GT power steering fluid that meets spec by spec the Texaco original's specs
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9012216&contentId=7024046

This is NOT available in Europe or anywhere outside CAnada, USA and Honduras
There are the specs
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_GTPowerSteering.pdf
Viscosity@ 40°C, cSt ASTM D-445 32
Viscosity@ 100°C, cSt ASTM D-445 7.5
Viscosity Index ASTM D-2270 214
Color, Typical ASTM D-1500 7.0
Appearance Clear, straw-colored
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40 C, max, cP ASTM D-2983 20,000
Flash Point, COC, min °F (°C) ASTM D-92 350 (177)
Specific Gravity, 60°F ASTM D-1298 0.85
Pounds per Gallon 7.14


It does not state if it's mineral, semi synth or synthetic 100%, but would be a good alternative

Sooo:
OEM stuff ?
Mercs 236.3 marketed by Fuchs as PSF?
Penrite PAS Fluid if someone can find it?
Fly to Latvia and import the genuine Texaco in barrels?
Texamatic 7045E or the Ravenol rebranded stuff?
Ravenol PSF-Y being fully synth?
Or the Castrol GT power steering fluid for lucky US citizens? Rest of the world can't get it...

HAppy monday to everyone
Robert
 
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gmookher

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2004
5,201
0
Grand Canyon State
R,

Your post is very interesting, but not at all compelling:

just like Pentosin(or total quartz) 5w-40 engine oil meets the needed specs for my

porsche 911
audi s4
it exceeds the m3's needs ('99 e36)
and runs great in the z car's turbo

its what happens to be runnin the rover and also very happy with it personally tested in extreeeems of temps down to 0F and well into the 120's, and I am never easy on my toys. Its flat tappet lube, very well enriched with zinc, moly etc. Factory fill in Germany right off the assembly lines


iirc the 911, s4 and rover get the green pentosin chf11

m3 gets a full synth atf

So while it may be that ravenol is more viscous, I sorta feel that the chf 11s has been just fine on my non ACE equipped truck and i dunno if its worth getting anything else specific for my d2 psf

The truth is u may be over thinking this,
they try and make it idiot proof
keyword is try

if you ever buy oem psf from lr dealer its green
like chf11 in my truck

not clear yellow like castrol
not brown like mb or the ravenol

idiots go replacing colors and wonder why its wonky?

my truck came from factory with pink radiator fluid, so I put back in pink- pentosin as well-
my truck came with green psf, I'm not gonna fuck with it, I put green back in

ymmv, looking forward to your results
 
Last edited:

robertofollia

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2005
527
0
My home is where my Disco is
Hi GMhooker
You're right about the colour.
For PAS the CHF11s might work well, but both for PAS and ACE... many members have complained about noise, groan, moan and other horror stories from the ACE pump.
It's something like old Citroen DS and IDs (1950's) when LHS fluid was specified. That fluid has been discontinued and no more will be made, ever, they are looking for alternatives everywhere. There are compatible fluids, but too thin for the spec so you get knocking and groan and moan as a result.

As far as colours go, I remember buying an off the shelf OEM 14315 fluid and it was between clear yellow and brown. And I remember reading some TSB from LR that warned about mixing "colours", telling us that they had switched manufacturer and colour went from yellow/brown to green, to avoid confusion.

Texaco, the one who produces the OEM fluid, states that 7045E texamatic fluid can be used.
I am waiting for the answer of a DAF Trucks dealer who also has the OEM stuff (but sold in 200 litre barrels -so 200 qts) to sell me by the amount, but that was 1 month ago.

I would love to use the CHF11s, at least I could order from my local parts supplier and wouldn't have to do 90 miles or pay 22 euro (30 USD) per quart compared to the unobtanium stuff.
Best regards
Robert
 

Rover_Hokie

Well-known member
Jun 7, 2008
355
0
Roanoke Valley, VA
I did a full drain and fill and went with the GM Cold Climate Power Steering Fluid Quart Size Item #12345867 from my local GM dealer. It had been on the shelf for a while, that is for sure. I picked up 2 quarters, at wholesale at $15 and change each. Fluid is golden yellow/translucent amber. I also added some Lucas Power Steering Sealer/Conditioner. Seems to be working well. I guess it will be awhile before I am in cold weather, but for now, no complaints.
 
Last edited:

gmookher

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2004
5,201
0
Grand Canyon State
yes indeed the ace solenoids may be more sensitive than non ace..
its an easy steering box to bleed, so I keep the fluid inside clean, and bleed bi-annually!

where are you located that you cant get chf11s? its pretty common on most higher end german autos now days
 

robertofollia

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2005
527
0
My home is where my Disco is
Sorry I mis-spellt your name.
Hi Gmookher (I think this time is OK)
I can get the pentosin CHF 11s, but find it way too thin, In fact, the mechanic poured it into my RRC when replaced the PAS pump and made a lot of noise. Had to drain, flush and refill.
D2 and RRC boxes are the same crap.
I have dropped a drop into my fingers, rubbed it, smelled it and Pentosin does just not feel the same as the crappy OEM stuff.

But.. I have found another oil, suitable for nearly everything, available both in red and in clear /brown.
The divinol ATF-C premium VI. I had never, to be honest, found a PAS oil meeting so many specs. To the Chrysler MS5931, The GM 9985010 (Saginaw racks), Saab, ZF TE-ML-09, meets even the GM 9985835 (wide temperature pefromance, equivalent to part #12345867), so I guess it's the same stuff and compatible.

http://www.zeller-gmelin.de/medias/sys_master/TI/8802556346398/TI-EN-51800.pdf?mime=application/pdf&realname=TI-EN-51800.pdf

Density/15°C / DIN 51 757: 848 kg/m³
Colour / DIN ISO 2049: Clear
Flash point (Cleveland) / DIN ISO 2592: 208 °C
Pour point / DIN ISO 3016: <-35°C
Viscosity/100°C / DIN 51 562: 7.5 mm²/s
Viscosity/40°C / DIN 51 562: 36.7 mm²/s
Viscosity index / DIN ISO 2909: 181

Recommended as servo oil for following cars:
Acura P/N 08206-9002 A; Chrysler MS-1872, MS-5931, P/N 04883077, MS-9602, ATF+4; Ford M2C 195-A; GM
P/N 89021184, GM 9985010; P/N 1052884; GM 9985835; P/N12345866; Honda P/N 08206-9002 A; Hyundai PSF-
3; Kia PSF-3; Mercedes-Benz 236.3, P/N 000 989 88 03; Mitsubishi PS Fluid, Diamond SP III; Nissan PSF-II; Saab
P/N (45) 30 09 800; Subaru P/N K 0209 A 0080; Toyota PSF Type EH, P/N 008886-01

Even suits a lot of other cars, but it's slightly more viscous than the OEM stuff, and the CHF11s is much thinner, so maybe there comes the ACE pump noise.
.
Might use it as guinea pig, have to find distributor as well....In amazon Germany it's about 7,99 euros/quart, so very good price.
IT's available dyed in red without the "C" (for clear) in the name.

To sum up
1.- OEM crap or the DAF rebranded stuff
2.- Texamatic 7045E (Recommended by Texaco). Unavailable currently in Spain as texaco withdrew and sold licenses and assets to Cepsa. To be reintroduced shortly
3.- The Ravenol PSF (rebranded Texaco Texamatic)
4.- Divinol
5.- FEbi yellow PAS fluid (meets chrysler, Saab, GM 9985010 specs and ZF TE ML-09)
6.- Ravenol PSF-Y fluid (meets the same specs but fullly synth)
7.- CHF 11s maybe with some additive to thicken it a little bit.

And finally a very nice russian video about fluids at -33ºC, Texamatic 7045E and Valvoline max power syn ATF are the winners
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRqszkuDohM
Cheers from the other side of the pond
Robert
 
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robertofollia

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2005
527
0
My home is where my Disco is
Sooo,
some more updates.
Got access to the MSDS of both the Texamatic and the magic yadayada 14315-33270 cold climate power steering fluid blah blah blah (a little far away, had to search them in Serbia)
Cold CLimate 14315-33270
COMPONENTS EC NUMBER SYMBOL / RISK PHRASES AMOUNT
Highly refined mineral oil (C15 - C50) * None 60 - 100 %weight
Methacrylate copolymer Confidential Xi/R36 1 - 5 %weight
*Contains one or more of the following EINECS numbers: 265-090-8, 265-091-3, 265-096-0, 265-097-6,
265-098-1, 265-101-6, 265-155-0, 265-156-6, 265-157-1, 265-158-7, 265-159-2, 265-160-8, 265-161-3,
265-166-0, 265-169-7, 265-176-5, 276-735-8, 276-736-3, 276-737-9, 276-738-4, 278-012-2. The full text of
all R-phrases is shown in Section 16.

There is the MSDS pdf (I would be very grateful if somebody could just post the document (I don't know how to) as if there is excessive bandwith, the link will go dead in no time
http://www.prista-oil.rs/dokumenti/Texaco/Cold Climate Power Steering Fluid/cold-climate-power-steering-fluid_msds.pdf

TEXAMATIC 7045E
COMPONENTS ECNUMBER SYMBOL / RISK PHRASES AMOUNT
Highly refined mineral oil (C15 -C50) * None 70 - 99 %weight
Methacrylate copolymer Confidential Xi/R36 1 - 5 %weight
*Contains one or more of the following EINECS numbers: 265-090-8, 265-091-3, 265-096-0, 265-097-6,
265-098-1, 265-101-6, 265-155-0, 265-156-6, 265-157-1, 265-158-7, 265-159-2, 265-160-8, 265-161-3,
265-166-0, 265-169-7, 265-176-5, 276-735-8, 276-736-3, 276-737-9, 276-738-4, 278-012-2. The full text of
all R-phrases is shown in Section 16.

There is the MSDS pdf (I would be very grateful if somebody could just post the document (I don't know how to) as if there is excessive bandwith, the link will go dead in no time
http://www.prista-oil.rs/dokumenti/Texaco/Texamatic 7045E/texamatic_7045e_msds.pdf

So, what is the conclusion, both have the same components, albeit in a different proportion, I suppose to aid in really really cold temps (under -20º celsius ambient temperature). As we will never, ever experience those in Spain, I will go to the Texamatic way, in both the ACE and PAS. Not using plain D-II or DexIII fluid, but the same as the supadupasecret unobtanium-made 14315, with a different colour, in a different can, and at 1/3 price.

Happy Wednesday to everyone
Robert
 

JohnB

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2007
2,236
2
Oregon
I picked up a can of pentosin chf 202. Same green color and D2 is fine with it.
Keep in mind the filter in the res can cause as many issues as a what one would think is a bad noisy pump.
 

pdogg

Well-known member
Callsign: N2FWD
Jul 18, 2005
1,153
2
Phoenix, AZ
been using the pentosin CHF11 in my D2 the past couple of years after my original pump went out .. not a peep from the pump or leak anywhere..