For those who have followed the other threads: no, I still don't have all of the parts for my rack, despite KVT's promise two weeks ago that I'd receive them 'by weeks end'. He has also still not responded to my emails (his mailbox is full), PMs (silence), or phone calls (latest phone number I have is now disconnected).
PayPal, which seems to be the method that KVT prefers and which most people have used to pay him, is unfortunately
actively hostile to buyers trying to recover money paid through their service.
- You must file a claim within 45 days of a payment. Given KVT's timetables, this means you will basically never be able to meet this deadline.
- Each claim can only cover one payment. Given that KVT requires a deposit, and it is ALWAYS more than 45 days after your deposit that he finishes your item, your deposit will always be more than 45 days out, and even if you file a claim based on the final payment, you can't connect the deposit with the final payment in your claim.
- You have
one chance to get it right with PayPal. The initial complaint is limited to 2000 characters (that's about 300 words) on a web form. That's your one chance to state your case; you can
never offer additional information to the PayPal people to help them understand the problem.
- All communication is via e-mail. You cannot call anyone at PayPal, or talk to the person handling your case.
- Even if they handle your case, they require you to get an
independent third party to sign an affidavit supporting your claims. You cannot recover the cost of doing this, either from PayPal, or from the payee.
- When they ask you for the independent verification, you have 10 calendar (not business) days to fax them the results. Fax is the only method they will accept, and you must fax them the answer within 10 days or your complaint is automatically and permanently denied. The Fax number can only be used to send them the signed statements from third parties.
- The most you can EVER recover is the amount of the payment, or $1000, whichever is
less.
- When you signed up for PayPal, you waived all right to
ever issue a credit-card chargeback against them. So you gave PayPal exclusive rights to handle disputes, under the draconian conditions described above. You can't send money through PayPal without accepting the terms, and once you have, you have permanently waived your rights to have a third party question PayPal's handling of the money.
- Finally, if they do find in your favor, and you marked the transaction as for 'goods', then before they will issue the credit to your account, you must give them proof that you have shipped the item back to the seller
at your own expense. You have waived your rights to pursue recovery of shipping expenses.
I am in the process of trying to recover $200 through PayPal from someone who sold me CAD software, but sent me a blatantly pirated copy. I am in a bind at the moment; PayPal is requiring me to send the illegal goods back to the seller if I want my money back, but I have a moral problem with that, and I even wonder if I have some legal obligation not to do so. Of course, I have no way of telling PayPal of this dilemma; the messages you receive from PayPal are from anonymous e-mail addresses. You cannot reply to them, as each one has a note saying that no replies will be read. They are all mouths and no ears.
But back to on-topic; because of the way KVT does business, you can't recover your money from PayPal or your credit-card company. You will unfortunately have to sue him, though that
may not be quite as difficult as it sounds.
mr_katanga gave some good advice in the other thread:
mr_katanga said:
Your best bet, depending on the jurisdiction, would be to file a claim in county court (or its equivalent in your jurisdiction). Even with service, you will most likely get a default judgment, since the potential of a dude that can't be reached answering your complaint even after service is slim. Then when you get a judgment, register it in whatever state and county KVT is in. In many cases, the order will be given reciprocal treatment. Then bust out a writ of replevin on his ass and either get your rack or your money back in a hurry. You don't need to file first in his jurisdiction (its a pain in the ass, unless you're there too), since the tort was partially committed and the damages exist in YOUR state (a rack was supposed to be delivered to you, right? That was the contract?) venue is proper in YOUR state for first filing. I do not know if Rover Solutions is a corporation or LLC or something, but that makes a difference too. You might also look into laws regarding business advertising in KVT's home state and the implications of fraud - after all, that is quite the duded up website he has. There is also the question of his state attorney general/local prosecutors and any criminal issues there could be (where is your money again?)
