Very odd axle shaft or diff breakdown

[adamsoccer]

The rover is a 95 RRC that I purchased with a LT230 swapped in, CLD linkage not hooked up. It has the rotoflex removed and runs DII prop shafts. It has 3inch equipe springs, front and rear links, and steering. It had been running 265/75/16 Dunlop muds and the break down happened 3 blocks from the tire shop when I had 285/75/16 Dunlop muds installed. (31.7inch to 32.7inch tire)

I drove at 55-70mph for 60 miles to the tire shop and it ran fine. Driving away from the shop I went over railroad tracks at bout 30-35mph and heard a bang. I thought it was the new 1 inch taller tires hitting the fenders so I pulled over for a look. Everything looked good and when I went to drive away the engine will run, the tranny will go into drive, the t-case will engage in high, both prop shafts will spin, but the truck is stationary. T-case and tranny linkage look fine.

Note: the railroad crossing is not a big bump. It’s main street in a small central FL town (Palatka) and the speed limit is 35. The crossing has rubber inserts on each side of the rail so it’s not that big a bump and I wasn’t going any faster than the traffic that was smoothly crossing it.

2 mechanics from the shop I got the tires came down the road to look at it and were as confused as me. I was lucky enough to get Justin from Lucky 8 on the phone and he said it was like nothing he had ever heard of. I’m able to crawl under the truck and smoothly spin both prop shafts with my hand (all 4 tires on the ground) and both the front and rear diff pinions spin but there is no movement at the tires.

When it was winched onto the flat bed the tires rolled fine but the drive shafts did not spin.

The shop let me leave it inside and I said I would come back in a day or two with a flat bed and tow it home to work on it here. The guy was very nice and as confused as I was about the situation, he asked if I wanted him to put it up on the lift first thing tomorrow and try and figure it out (no charge) so I said fine.

I assume it must be both diffs or both front and rear shafts, but breaking at the same time is what’s got me confused. If I already had a broken half shaft in one axle, the unlocked LT230 wouldn’t have been driving fine?

Any Ideas? I’ll post pictures of whatever I find when I pull the diffs and shafts or if the shop down there does it.

Thanks,
Adam

 

[Divied245]

i bought mine it that same condition. the spider gears were blew out in the rear and a CV joint exploded in the front. with that situation its a axel or it in the diff.

 

[adamsoccer]

Thanks

I figured it would be along those lines. Still amazed at the way it happened.

I need to upgrade the AAA membership first thing tomorrow and wait 3 days till the benefits kick in to get it towed back.

 

[DennyDoler]

Conspiracy, It's the only way they get people to stay in Palatka.

 

[MUSKYMAN]

I bet a rear half shaft and a front CV both failed.

I would think you could hear the slight dragging of the front half shaft in the split star of the CV? as the star failing and the half shaft spinning in it is the common failure on the stock CV's

the funny part is I always say that the jump to 285/75 is when you have to make the conversion to HD stuff...I guess your RRC heard me

 

[ptschram]

CV joint in the front, probably nothing else. Could be a rear halfshaft, but I doubt it.

In spite of the truck appearing to be built pretty well, I suspect the CVs were dry.

If we had the CDL engage able, we'd at least be able to move the truck and maybe we could tell which end of the truck was involved.

 

[rover4x4]

why couldnt he reach up under the truck and turn the nipple with a wrench DII style?

 

[adamsoccer]

Update: Spoke with the shop down there and they pulled the drain plug along with sliding the rear axle shaft out to get a look inside the diff and they were able to see broken gears in the diff. He said they didn't inspect the front after they knew the rear diff was bad.

Could it be just the rear diff and nothing in the front? I'll be getting the rover on Saturday and will be able to inspect the front myself then. I can engange the CDL with a wrench if it will help diagnose the front. Would it be pulling the rear prop shaft, engaging the CDL, and seeing if it drives in front wheel drive?

As far as rear diffs go, did all RRC 24 spline diffs come with the same gear ratio, so any will be a swap?

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Divied245]

Sound like spider gears. you can't see ring and pinion gears looking down the tube. They make just a spider gear repair kit (AB has one i think), which is much cheaper than a whole diff. if you do put a whole diff in, I think they are all the same ratio. I had swapped a 24spline into the rear of a 10 spline truck and the ratio was the same. So I assume they are the same across the board.

I still think there is something wrong with the front though. You said both shafts free spin in drive. If only the back broke, the open CLD would send all the power to the back and the front driveshaft wouldn't/shouldn't spin at all. But try to engage the CLD and see if it moves...

 

[ptschram]

Sound like spider gears. you can't see ring and pinion gears looking down the tube. They make just a spider gear repair kit (AB has one i think), which is much cheaper than a whole diff. if you do put a whole diff in, I think they are all the same ratio. I had swapped a 24spline into the rear of a 10 spline truck and the ratio was the same. So I assume they are the same across the board.

I still think there is something wrong with the front though. You said both shafts free spin in drive. If only the back broke, the open CLD would send all the power to the back and the front driveshaft wouldn't/shouldn't spin at all. But try to engage the CLD and see if it moves...

All stock RRC coilers had 3.54 gears in them.

You can see the ring gear looking down the tubes, it just depends on how baldy bowed up it is, pic attached!

The front can be easily enough inspected from outside, jack it up and turn the wheels...

 

[MUSKYMAN]

Update: Spoke with the shop down there and they pulled the drain plug along with sliding the rear axle shaft out to get a look inside the diff and they were able to see broken gears in the diff. He said they didn't inspect the front after they knew the rear diff was bad.

Could it be just the rear diff and nothing in the front? I'll be getting the rover on Saturday and will be able to inspect the front myself then. I can engange the CDL with a wrench if it will help diagnose the front. Would it be pulling the rear prop shaft, engaging the CDL, and seeing if it drives in front wheel drive?

As far as rear diffs go, did all RRC 24 spline diffs come with the same gear ratio, so any will be a swap?

Thanks for all the help.

your original post said you could turn both drive shafts...if that was truley the case then something in the front must also be broken.

If you you were only turning the rear shaft then what was happening was the CDL was spinning and the rear spiders were not moving the torque from the carrier to the side gears. In this case the easiest and best fix is to replace the whole 3rd member with another 24 spline used unit from someone like will or marty. Yes they all have the same 3:54-1 ratio stock.

If you had a allready cracked front CV star it is possible that when the rear let go the shock load of the incident finnished off the front then as well. I would have to wonder about the trucks history because it has the LT230 swapped in that may have been done to replace a failed BW and a locked up VC in a BW can really stress a CV so its possible you have been driving around on a failing CV for awhile.

keep in mind these are all just guesses and the only way to really sort these things out is to have the truck and start tearing into it.

good luck!

 

[ptschram]

If you had a allready cracked front CV star it is possible that when the rear let go the shock load of the incident finnished off the front then as well.

good luck!

I'm curious about this as I'd think that when the rear axle went, the center diff would send all the torque to the rear driveshaft. If the diff were locked, your scenario certainly would have occurred. I suspect the front CV may already have failed and that the CDL was locked to allow the truck to move. I've seen several situations where the CVs were so badly blowed up that there was no interference with the inner halfshaft and no noise or other evidence of failure-of course, there was the one that sounded like a siren from the bits hitting the exciter ring!

Only further disassembly will tell the tale.

 

[adamsoccer]

Musky: I was able to spin both shafts with my hands. When I spun the rear or front shaft with my hand the other shaft would spin as well. In drive both shafts would be free spinning but neither axle would move.

This rover has quite the history. It's a rebuilt title from when it was a few years old. It was a few peoples toy and after it was "built" it changed hands 3 times with a blown motor. I picked it up 2 years ago and went through a lot of head gasket head-aces before finding a cracked block and swapping in a motor. I picked it up for the Florida Land Rover Club website and given it's condition when I got it, it's been wheeled hard before.

I assume DI's also come with the same 24 spline diffs?

To test the front, jack of the front and and just spin the tires looking the the clunk/click of the bad CV or should I be able to see the a break on the outside?

 

[MUSKYMAN]

Musky: I was able to spin both shafts with my hands. When I spun the rear or front shaft with my hand the other shaft would spin as well. In drive both shafts would be free spinning but neither axle would move.

This rover has quite the history. It's a rebuilt title from when it was a few years old. It was a few peoples toy and after it was "built" it changed hands 3 times with a blown motor. I picked it up 2 years ago and went through a lot of head gasket head-aces before finding a cracked block and swapping in a motor. I picked it up for the Florida Land Rover Club website and given it's condition when I got it, it's been wheeled hard before.

I assume DI's also come with the same 24 spline diffs?

To test the front, jack of the front and and just spin the tires looking the the clunk/click of the bad CV or should I be able to see the a break on the outside?

then Paul is on the mark...the CDL was locked and I would guess whoever installed the LT230 never replaced the failed CV's that most likely failed with the BW tc.

 

[MUSKYMAN]

you really are going to have to tear the front end apart both sides to see whats going on in there...at this point I would tear down both front and rear housings end to end and confirm the state of everything.

then get some D1 linkage for the CDL

also yes the D1's 3rds will go right into that truck but the center mounting studs will be a bit short so replacing those will allow full threads on the d1 3rd member.

 

[adamsoccer]

Sounds Good. I should have access to a lift for this so I'll tear it all apart and check everything.

Another Diff shopping question. Some information says that the 24 spline fronts can also be used in the rear of some applications. Is this true for the RRC? If possible, would a used front be better since they see less wear?

 

[MUSKYMAN]

fronts and rears are the same so any D1 or RRC 3rd will work.

 

[ptschram]

It's full-time four wheel drive, they see the same loads.

Wait until you tear it apart to start buying parts, you may well find you already have 24-spline stuff.

Given the history, this was gonna happen anyway you look at it, the slightly larger tires were enough to push it over the cliff.

 

[MUSKYMAN]

I wouldent think anyone went backwards to 10 spline stuff...being its a 95 its got 24 spline stuff in it.

 

[ptschram]

I wouldent think anyone went backwards to 10 spline stuff...being its a 95 its got 24 spline stuff in it.

I didn't see it was a '95, but also, one can never tell with Rovers. It could have been cobbled together with parts out of the pile to get it moving and sold.

I've learned to not be surprised by what I find in Rovers!