2020 Defender

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,238
86
North Carolina
I have a complaint.

That thing is a fever dream of brutalism and Bauhaus design. It's like they couldn't afford CAD software, so used Minecraft instead. It's fucking ugly.
Holy fuck! It does look exactly like it was built in Minecraft! I couldn't quite figure out what it was reminding me of, but that's it. 🤣

Cheers,

Kennith
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,238
86
North Carolina
As neat as that is, it's not really set up as a vehicle I'd want to spend too much time in. For all that practicality, the "overland" use case doesn't work at all; so you've got something capable of obliterating trails, but that's about it. You're not taking that thing any farther.

That's going to be out-fucking-standing at a job site, but useless as tits on a suitcase in the middle of nowhere. Electric doesn't belong out there yet, as there's not a reasonable way to juice one back up. I give them props for building what contractors should be buying, but I don't think they'll buy it.

These guys needed to take that vehicle farther. They just ran out of skill. Why would I give them $120,000 for that poorly aligned pile of boxes when Tesla is bringing out a truck that will almost certainly be more fun, and can actually be serviced without shipping it across the country?

Rivian has come much closer to something people would actually want to take off pavement for any length of time, and you can preorder one now for around $70,000, give or take. That's just above half what that Bollinger or whatever costs. It's on the opposite of the appearance spectrum; perhaps a little too tame, but at least the panels are straight...

...which is funny as fuck to me, because that whole B2 was styled with a ruler that must have been crooked. It looks like a fucking Harbor Freight tool box, so far as panel quality is concerned. It's no wonder they keep showing it off in that finish. An H1 has better fit and finish.

Of course, maybe if those fuck-nuts would fit the right lens to their camera or at least correct the warping, it wouldn't look so bad; but if that's what they think looks good... Well, I'm not sure I trust them with my safety at 80mph.

So, here's what Rivian is charging around seventy grand for:

57537

I think I'd rather have the vehicle built by people that bothered to actually finish the damned thing and still rate it for three feet of fording depth.

Edit: You know the world has gone to shit when a dog will sit on a door and pose for Instagram...

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Papillon

Well-known member
Dec 19, 2005
88
3
As neat as that is, it's not really set up as a vehicle I'd want to spend too much time in. For all that practicality, the "overland" use case doesn't work at all; so you've got something capable of obliterating trails, but that's about it. You're not taking that thing any farther.

That's going to be out-fucking-standing at a job site, but useless as tits on a suitcase in the middle of nowhere. Electric doesn't belong out there yet, as there's not a reasonable way to juice one back up. I give them props for building what contractors should be buying, but I don't think they'll buy it.

These guys needed to take that vehicle farther. They just ran out of skill. Why would I give them $120,000 for that poorly aligned pile of boxes when Tesla is bringing out a truck that will almost certainly be more fun, and can actually be serviced without shipping it across the country?

Rivian has come much closer to something people would actually want to take off pavement for any length of time, and you can preorder one now for around $70,000, give or take. That's just above half what that Bollinger or whatever costs. It's on the opposite of the appearance spectrum; perhaps a little too tame, but at least the panels are straight...

...which is funny as fuck to me, because that whole B2 was styled with a ruler that must have been crooked. It looks like a fucking Harbor Freight tool box, so far as panel quality is concerned. It's no wonder they keep showing it off in that finish. An H1 has better fit and finish.

Of course, maybe if those fuck-nuts would fit the right lens to their camera or at least correct the warping, it wouldn't look so bad; but if that's what they think looks good... Well, I'm not sure I trust them with my safety at 80mph.

So, here's what Rivian is charging around seventy grand for:

View attachment 57537

I think I'd rather have the vehicle built by people that bothered to actually finish the damned thing and still rate it for three feet of fording depth.

Edit: You know the world has gone to shit when a dog will sit on a door and pose for Instagram...

Cheers,

Kennith

Kennith,

I know this dog and he is most talented... To wit:

This dog walks into a butcher shop with a purse attached around his neck. He walks up to the meat counter and calmly sits there until it's his turn to be served. A man, who is already in the butcher shop, finished his purchase and notices the dog.

The butcher leaned over the counter and asked the dog what it wanted today. The dog put his paw on the glass case in front of the ground beef, and the butcher said, "How many pounds?" The dog barked twice, so the butcher made a package of two pounds of ground beef.

He then said, "Anything else?" The dog pointed to the pork chops, and the butcher said, "How many?" The dog barked four times, and the butcher made up a package of four pork chops.

The dog then walked around behind the counter, so the butcher could get at the purse. The butcher took out the appropriate amount of money and tied the two packages of meat around the dog's neck.

The man who had been watching all this time, decided to follow the dog. It walked for several blocks and then trotted up to a house where it began to scratch the door to be let in.

As the owner appeared at the door, the man said to him, "That's a really smart dog you have there." The owner replied, "He's not all that smart. This is the second time this week he forgot his key."
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,238
86
North Carolina
Kennith,

I know this dog and he is most talented... To wit:

This dog walks into a butcher shop with a purse attached around his neck. He walks up to the meat counter and calmly sits there until it's his turn to be served. A man, who is already in the butcher shop, finished his purchase and notices the dog.

The butcher leaned over the counter and asked the dog what it wanted today. The dog put his paw on the glass case in front of the ground beef, and the butcher said, "How many pounds?" The dog barked twice, so the butcher made a package of two pounds of ground beef.

He then said, "Anything else?" The dog pointed to the pork chops, and the butcher said, "How many?" The dog barked four times, and the butcher made up a package of four pork chops.

The dog then walked around behind the counter, so the butcher could get at the purse. The butcher took out the appropriate amount of money and tied the two packages of meat around the dog's neck.

The man who had been watching all this time, decided to follow the dog. It walked for several blocks and then trotted up to a house where it began to scratch the door to be let in.

As the owner appeared at the door, the man said to him, "That's a really smart dog you have there." The owner replied, "He's not all that smart. This is the second time this week he forgot his key."
Ouch! Any chance I had of recovering from whatever this fever did to my brain is now gone. :ROFLMAO:

Allow me to fire back:

Two muffins were in an oven.

One said to the other: "Holy shit it's hot in here!"

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The other replied: "Holy shit a talking muffin!"

Cheers,

Kennith
 
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kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,238
86
North Carolina
Those fuck-nuts are getting their Land Cruisers mixed up. There's nothing "legendary" about what's being sold here, and Toyota doesn't sell that many of them world-wide in five fucking years; let alone one.

This is why the media should be ignored.

As far as I'm concerned, they can take that yacht and shove it right up their ass along with everything else they dump on our shores. It's all dog shit.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
2,102
36
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
As far as I'm concerned, they can take that yacht and shove it right up their ass along with everything else they dump on our shores. It's all dog shit.
How do you really feel about it? 😂

The earlier models were pretty nice imho. I especially like the early 60 Series with the round headlights.
 
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kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,238
86
North Carolina
How do you really feel about it? 😂

The earlier models were pretty nice imho. I especially like the early 60 Series with the round headlights.
Those made much more sense when released. The 70 at that time was a slightly different beast, and less tolerable in modern life; and the 60 was about 1,600 pounds lighter than the 200; or, an entire pickup payload lighter. Your average F-150, fully loaded, is carrying the difference between the two. To put it another way, imagine driving your Discovery off-pavement.

Now, imagine that same wonderful trail or adventure, but with the weight of three ATVs in the cargo bay... This is the nonsense I'm on about.

The 70 did not gain much fat over the years, but the second they started selling that "Toyota H2" 100, Land Rovers started to feel like Lotuses. By the time the 200 rolled around... These things are as heavy as people think Land Rovers are.

Is it capable and reliable? Yes, but that's not all that's on the table; and the table matters, because this is the kiddie table. This is the automotive version of that fake pocket on a cheap sport jacket. All the spices are there, but something is wrong with the fucking casserole.

I really like the styling, and I don't find the price objectionable given how few they sell and where they're made. I like some of the equipment, and the interior controls are easy to operate, but I will say this: The Defender wins.

The Defender wins, because it's not living in the shadow of a currently produced masterpiece. If the entire rest of the world got the old Defender, just updated so far as comfort and quality goes, and somehow we only got the subject of this thread... Oh, people would be pissed.

Land Rover may be run by idiots, but Toyota is lazy as fuck. At least Land Rover tries. Toyota doesn't know it yet, but they're in danger of hanging out with Nissan and Mitsubishi if they don't do something interesting soon. Don't even get me started on that stupid "Supra"... Two perfectly good Lexus sporting platforms just laying around, in factories specializing in precision, at the right price point, and they fucking call BMW and "pre-rice" it for the customer.

You know who their target was for that thing? It was ME, but Instead of serving up a canvas they handed out coloring books. They completely missed the point because they didn't even try to catch it. They take their customers for granted. So long as it doesn't break, they figure people will come back. We'd all be wearing denim underwear if that was a logical thought process.

Toyota doesn't give two flying fucks about the US, and will be a problem for them in the future if they don't do something about it. They aren't immune to fading out of interest.

Cheers,

Kennith
 
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Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
2,102
36
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
and will be a problem for them in the future if they don't do something about it.
Which would suit me just fine.

And some good / valid points.

As I mentioned before, driving the D1 seems like a small mid-size vehicle compared to what is on the road for the most part today.
 

mgreenspan

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2005
4,452
28
Briggs's Back Yard
It’s all in the name of safety. The amount of space between the passengers and the sides of the cars and all the extra space front and rear saves lives. Granted we need it because we let our idiots drive completely distracted and faster and faster in more populated areas, but I’d take a wreck in a new vehicle over one in an older smaller one any day of the week.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,238
86
North Carolina
It’s all in the name of safety. The amount of space between the passengers and the sides of the cars and all the extra space front and rear saves lives. Granted we need it because we let our idiots drive completely distracted and faster and faster in more populated areas, but I’d take a wreck in a new vehicle over one in an older smaller one any day of the week.
That much I do understand, and it's an irritation, but I can overlook it from a common sense perspective. Whether I think it's needed or not doesn't affect the fact that it's required.

The 2020 Defender is up to a thousand pounds lighter than the Land Cruiser, though. That's two ATVs instead of three, but you're still hauling around two ATVs of mass that you don't need to be. The Range Rover is, as well, but it can be equipped to the same weight with a heavy engine, long wheelbase, and Autobiography trim; but it can handle it's weight... And handle. You've got to add nearly $100,000 in options to get it there.

Both have sense enough to use matching front and rear suspension technology.

The Land Cruiser weighs what it weighs. There are essentially no options. Most of the time you'll just end up with whatever color is still available, actually. It's a "body positive" irritant that's just languishing here because it doesn't cost them much to make it. The only time it changes is when whatever they're using on something else changes.

I like a relatively wide track ('90s Pontiac anyone? :ROFLMAO:), so I'm not calling it on that (though I don't much enjoy crawling out of modern sedans with those wide sills), but it's still a bloated mess tiptoeing around it's off-pavement upgrades in relation to similar platforms. The 70 would sell just fine over here, and take a chunk out of the new off-pavement vehicles from other manufacturers.

They're just lazy, like Mitsubishi and Nissan. Everything's okay so long as people buy the cars. That's not the big picture, though, and they're caught in the yearly sales fog rather than focusing on their declining brand. Their failed competition looked good on paper as well... Until they didn't; and Toyota is only a few years before the tipping point those guys reached at this time.

The part that pisses me off is the fact that the product line is insulting. I didn't know how far they'd fallen until I drove that 2019 4Runner, and then I really started paying attention; which should be an indicator of their declining brand, because I wasn't paying attention before.

Here I am, one of the biggest F&F fans out there, and Toyota can't even sell me a fucking Supra. They're done. They will not survive here if they don't change and begin to respect their customers. As noted, at least Land Rover tries. They fail a lot, but underneath those failures are good intentions and great vehicles; just perhaps not the vehicles we'd prefer.

Toyota does not have good intentions. In my opinion, they are morally bankrupt, at this point; and responsible for unsafe vehicles. If I was in charge of regulating automobiles, I'd send that 4Runner right back to wherever it came from, because dollars to donuts a large portion of involved collisions are the result of being rammed from the side trying to get out of parking lots.

Safety lives under the hood, as well, after all; or it Toyota's case, it does not. Indeed, I'll go so far as to call them on lies and false advertising in regard to those power plants.

Cheers,

Kennith
 
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kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,238
86
North Carolina
Which would suit me just fine.

And some good / valid points.

As I mentioned before, driving the D1 seems like a small mid-size vehicle compared to what is on the road for the most part today.
I don't suppose I'd miss them either, at this point.

I know I'm fairly aggressive in regard to Toyota, but they honestly deserve it; not from everyone, but at least from a few people like me and the enthusiast community in general.

Cheers,

Kennith
 
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