2020 Defender

Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,205
459
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
If it was any good, people would have known that Range Rovers were built by Land Rover.

That was the point wasn’t it?

For folks not to know it was a LR as they left a pretty bad taste when they just left the US market without any support to Series owners.

Folks thought it was a different brand down to the dealership level.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
That was the point wasn’t it?

For folks not to know it was a LR as they left a pretty bad taste when they just left the US market without any support to Series owners.

Folks thought it was a different brand down to the dealership level.

The point was to sell Range Rovers. That was a mistake.

In marketing, what you're trying to sell is the overarching brand identity; applicable to all products and services, and valued exclusive of their presence.

This is probably the best international advertisement for their brand that ever hit the air:


Others were made in the series, but this is the only one I can find. They should have featured at least one more everyday scene, but the concept is workable. The big screw-up is the voice-over at the end. It should have been a static title card with text for each region. Aside from that, the ad featuring only the Range Rover's pedals is up there near the top.

They can advertise all they want, though... If it's not well-run, if it's not consistent, if they don't brand everything visibly as a Land Rover and drive that point home from the magazine to the owner's manual to the dealership bathroom, it's a failure. If the hood badges don't all say the same thing, it's a failure. People aren't bright enough to pull that into a cohesive image in their brains.

Lincoln is nailing it with Matthew Mc... Mconogh... Matt. If you want an example of how to build a brand, just look at Lincoln right now. They're fucking killing it. Glock, Porsche, Apple, Audi... They all have very specific images that are their own, and yet extremely similar. It doesn't matter what's under the body of a Lamborghini... All that matters is the body and the badge.

That's marketing. (y)

My point is, the suggestion that this Defender farce is some manner of brilliant marketing is just silly. Even if it was on purpose, it's yet another wrong move in a history of wrong moves. They should have revealed it earlier. If they think they're going to generate hype this late in the game, they've got another thing coming.

It had better be a body on frame, solid axle behemoth with optional tracks and ninjas in the glove box that's capable of driving up Everest if they want people excited and pinching pennies again. They'll need to thumb their noses at trend-setters with a big, fat V8 or diesel to generate some controversy.

They missed the big wave, and when you miss that wave, you've got to make one yourself. They are incapable of doing that.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,205
459
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
In marketing, what you're trying to sell is the overarching brand identity; applicable to all products and services, and valued exclusive of their presence.

Agreed, however, at the time in the US there was no other products - only the Rangie.

Today I agree with you as there is other product.

Yet not in the late 80s when LR re-entered the US market.

And also started a whole new segment which they owned for many years.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Agreed, however, at the time in the US there was no other products - only the Rangie.

Today I agree with you as there is other product.

Yet not in the late 80s when LR re-entered the US market.

And also started a whole new segment which they owned for many years.

True.

I think you know what I'm about to type, though...

Selling only the Range Rover here was a mistake; and so was the name. :ROFLMAO:

Not adapting the Defender fully was also a mistake, along Discovery Series II, LR3, and LR4. They've had no consistency in naming, branding, or even the product line and corporate image. They're idiots. They've made some great vehicles, but they're idiots.

At this point, their best move would be the Toyota/Lexus route. If they're hell-bent on confusing the consumer and having a luxury vs utility line, split them up. People don't know they come from the same manufacturer, anyway, until they show up ready to buy. Then they have another choice to make at the exact wrong time for a sale.

So, spin off the Defender 90, the Defender 110, whatever they call the pickup that they'd better make, as well as the Discovery and Discovery sport as Land Rovers. Range Rover is simply Range Rover. Toyota and Lexus. Honda and Acura. Nissan and Infiniti. If they can't manage a global umbrella brand, they need to divide it for marketing purposes.

At this point, marketing a Range Rover is a different process than marketing a Discovery. The lines are far too different now to bridge the gap again, and with that pile of various Range Rovers, and whatever the fuck the Velar is supposed to be, they're already split whether they like it or not.

You can lead them to water, but you can't make them drink, though. I'm not sure they'll ever get it right...

Cheers,

Kennith
 

Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,205
459
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
They've had no consistency in naming, branding, or even the product line and corporate image. They're idiots. They've made some great vehicles, but they're idiots.

Very true. There have been attempts yet nothing seems to have stuck.

Interesting idea to split the types again. Possibly the Defender intro could support the idea. I have my doubts though that it will happen.

If JLR does go bankrupt and the marques are split, then who knows.

In the interim I’ll enjoy my 80’s Rangie ads on the garage walls.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
They fail at marketing again!

It's the "dedicated off-roaders" that they lost and need to reclaim. That was the heart of their core brand and, without them, they have no demographic foundation. If they don't buy it, Land Rover will have one of the oldest problems in the book.

If that thing shows up with exclusively and undefeatable fly-by-wire control systems, however... I'm completely uninterested in the vehicle for my historical uses.

There's nothing wrong with unitized construction, and nothing wrong with independent suspension. It's even okay to have a bunch of computers, but when a computer failure of an isolated sub-system dead-lines the vehicle, you're done. Finished. It can never be taken on a genuine vehicle-dependent expedition. Go Gucci camping all you want, but I wouldn't touch it with Blue's dick and Brian pushing.

Electronic controls have no place in those environments unless some specific conditions are met.

Now, I say that knowing that it's possible to do them right, but it costs money, and the driver must be able to defeat them. It must be possible to bypass the throttle actuator, and brake/steering electronics must be limited to assistance, and irrelevant to vehicle function. I'll deal with it if all that happens when it breaks is I lose power steering and power brakes until service.

If a dead throttle actuator kills the vehicle, however, it's entirely useless for serious travel. There had better be a cable backup, and the actuator's failure mode must release operation to that cable.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

DiscoHasBeen

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2016
1,171
262
Indy
I agree with the guy in the vid. It sounds to me like the only people that will be interested in this are current customers. People that would have bought a 4Runner aren't going to buy this. They should have looked no further than the Wrangler as to what to bring to the market. As to drivability and such, it ranks at the bottom in most car reviews I've seen but they are everywhere. They're just releasing the Discovery III.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
I agree with the guy in the vid. It sounds to me like the only people that will be interested in this are current customers. People that would have bought a 4Runner aren't going to buy this. They should have looked no further than the Wrangler as to what to bring to the market. As to drivability and such, it ranks at the bottom in most car reviews I've seen but they are everywhere. They're just releasing the Discovery III.

They should have partnered with another manufacturer.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

robertf

Well-known member
Jan 22, 2006
4,781
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If a dead throttle actuator kills the vehicle, however, it's entirely useless for serious travel. There had better be a cable backup, and the actuator's failure mode must release operation to that cable.

LR hasnt made a vehicle like that in over 20 years, why would they start now?
 
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kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
LR hasnt made a vehicle like that in over 20 years, why would they start now?

They're resurrecting the Defender, and they know it's going to be in competition with the best the world's ever seen.

If they hadn't waited so long, it wouldn't have been a problem, but now several heavy-hitters are being revealed around the same time.

They weren't in competition with Jeep and Ford before, but they sure as hell will be in 2020.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

robertf

Well-known member
Jan 22, 2006
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They're resurrecting the Defender, and they know it's going to be in competition with the best the world's ever seen.

They are making a new car and putting a sticker on it that says defender. I believe the tribute stops there.
 

Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
3,205
459
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
the 2020 Defender will have far more in common with the current crop of off-road-capable crossovers from rival manufacturers.

That sums it - no need to throw cold water; no fire to begin with.

We all know that the pendulum has swung from the Best 4x4xFar to Above and Beyond.
 
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kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
Why the hell didn't he just sell that imagery to Automobile magazine or someone else? That's what I would have done; with personal use rights under embargo until publication.

Is it just me, or are their bumps on that ass end meant to look like rivets? Maybe they drove some in the sheet metal just to irritate you when waxing it.

You can certainly see the six million pounds of cladding.

Cheers,

Kennith