Dealer says my engine is leaking oil because it is synthetic.. BS?

clarkwjackson

clarkwjackson

Well-known member
Oct 22, 2007
145
0
UT
that may be true. I have tried several different weights/formulas, but all were from the same company (none of which meet the HTHS figures that are being discussed on this board) My comment was more aimed at my being duped for years into thinking one company's products are good for whatever vehicle I run them in. Now that I have a base of information to start from I can make better oil choices for all my vehicles. On a side note, this also points me in a better direction with my VW which has started leaving heavy white sludge on the bottom of the oil cap/valve cover.
 
Last edited:
Chris-St Louis

Chris-St Louis

1
Oct 27, 2004
3,000
4
VWs, from 2001-current (If I recall Correctly) REQUIRE oils that meet at least 501.000 505.000 is for the diesel and provides even MORE valvetrain protection. 505.001 is for the mid2003-current diesel and provides slightly more, but the cost difference is tremendous. So far, I found the Mobil 1 and Castrol Synthec 0-40 at the zone to meet 505. HOWEVER, check the bottle for sure, if it doesnt say 501/505 it doesnt meet that spec, regardless of brand.

Take a look at the sludging on VW 1.8 Turbo. People were using oil that only met SM (Useless in most cars on the road today) and the engine dtroyed that oil, and in turn destroyed the engine.
 
Last edited:
B

barrios35

Guest
Chris-St Louis said:
http://www.shellusserver.com/products/rotella_t.php

This is my pick, cheap and avalible everywhere.
Click to expand...

I went to Menards, Walmart, Autozone and none had this in stock!!!! They all had the Triple Protection, but I was hesitant since it did not say anything about gasoline engines.

I ended up with the Rotella T 5W40 Synthetic for 19.99 a gal at autozone. Tried of driving.

Question though, how come the Manual is not more specific on the oil to be used. It just says API level SG, SH or SJ. Nothing on A3/B3 etc etc...
 
Chris-St Louis

Chris-St Louis

1
Oct 27, 2004
3,000
4
barrios35 said:
Question though, how come the Manual is not more specific on the oil to be used. It just says API level SG, SH or SJ. Nothing on A3/B3 etc etc...
Click to expand...

A few years ago, the oil requirments were differt, more Zddp was allowed. Oil formulas change periodically. In the 90s, for example, this wasnt really a discussion. But, since oils today were geared more for modern engines (Rovers engine is 40 years old design, and as far as I know, the last holdout on flat tappets) the requirments of the older ones dont get met.
 
adriatic04

adriatic04

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2007
2,506
2
cleveland, oh
barrios35 said:
I went to Menards, Walmart, Autozone and none had this in stock!!!! They all had the Triple Protection, but I was hesitant since it did not say anything about gasoline engines.
Click to expand...
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/product_rotellamulti.html

I believe the new Rotella T multigrade w/ Triple Protection is now this, it says diesel, but also gas engine.

chris, is this correct?
 
nzoliver

nzoliver

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2005
51
0
Christchurch, New Zealand
ojoc37.wix.com
Chris-St Louis said:
I used Rotella 15-40, and woudl advise just about everyone too use it. But let me at least tell you why.The HD Diels 15W-40 products have a High Temperature High Shear (HTHS) rating that is similar to the ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4 and C3 ratings. Plus, the ZDDP has been reduced making it safe for Cats and O2 sensor. Some guys think being a diesel 15W-40 oil is why the cams last longer,becuase it had hgiher ZDDP freaked when it was reduced,but the real difference is the HTHS and similar requirements.

SAE xx rates oil viscosity at 100C/212F

SAE xxW rates oil viscosity at one temperature that is well
below zero but varies depending on the rating (IE: -35)

HTHS rates oil viscosity and shear at 150C/302F

All SAE 0W-30,5W-30,10W-30,0W-40,5W-40 and 10W-40 ratings have the exact same minimum HTHS requirements. (2.9 at 150C/302F) . So a 10W-40 is NOT necessarily any thicker at 150C than a 0W-30.

An SAE 0W-30 that is also ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4 or C3 approved has a minimum HTHS requirement of 3.5 at 150C/302F

So an ACEA A3/B4 approved SAE 0W-30 is actually required to be much thicker at 150C/302F and provide far better HTHS shear protection than an SAE 10W-40 that is not ACEA A3/B4 approved is required to provide. YES, a 0W-30 can be thicker than a 10W-40!!!

SAE 15W-40 has special requirements that exceed the individual "15W" and "40". The include a minimum HTHS of 3.7 at 150C/302F.

Typical SAE 10W-40 and SAE 20W-50 products are discouraged by virtually EVERY OEM and they are not approved by any OEM for use in modern cars. So, many oil companies that make them use their cheapest base stocks in these products and the result is inferior protection when compared to other modern oil products. These 10W-40 and 20W-50 products do NOT share the ZDDP limits that the more common ILSAC approved 5W-30 and 5W-20 products have, but the absence of those strict ZDDP limits in 10W-40 and 20W-50 has not shown any real advantage in camshaft protection (or anything else).

The ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4 or C3 ratings will insure that the oil provides good protection under HTHS conditions. You can find these ratings in the Castrol Syntec 0W-30, Mobil 1 0W-40, Valvoline Synpower 5W-40 and other similar products. These products will be thin enough to allow the flow
required to flush away abrasives and will still provide the required high temperature high sheer protection. I like Rotella. It fits.

You will NOT find that approval in Mobil 1 5W-30, Mobil 1 10W-30, Mobil 1 0W-30, Castrol Syntec 5W-30, Valvoline Synpower 5W-30 or other seemingly similar products. These are NOT the correct oil products for with flat tappet lifters, like the Land Rover V8

BRAND MEANS NOTHING!!!!!!!! If you turn the bottle over and it does not say that it is ACEA A3/B3 (or A3/B4, or C3) approved, then it does NOT meet that approval!

So, using Mobil 1 is NOT the answer, using Castrol Syntec is NOT the answer, and using Valvoline Synpower is NOT the answer. Only certain products within those lines (and others) meet the requirements.

Anything that has ANY of the following approvals will NOT meet the requirements you need to protect the 1960s Tech, flat tappet lifters engine that Land Rover Used:

ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5, C1, C2 GM 6094M, 4718M ILSAC GF-4

The choice is yours. I like Rotella.
Click to expand...

I'm with this.;)

ALL the LR dealers here in NZ (where conditions are tough) and the independants use 'old' style oils as these V8s are 'old' style engines.
The new Mobil 1 style oils are a death sentence for these engines. I have used Total Rubia in my 300Tdi and Total Quartz 5000 in my DII V8s. No problems at all.

It was the same for all my Italian cars..The factory decal in the engine bay suggested oils so I used them and NEVER had a problem.

It might be old school thinking but it works. :applause:

My 10c worth anyway.
 
rover4x4

rover4x4

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2004
5,231
49
41
North Carolina, Raleigh
nzoliver said:
I'm with this.;)

ALL the LR dealers here in NZ (where conditions are tough) and the independants use 'old' style oils as these V8s are 'old' style engines.
The new Mobil 1 style oils are a death sentence for these engines. I have used Total Rubia in my 300Tdi and Total Quartz 5000 in my DII V8s. No problems at all.

It was the same for all my Italian cars..The factory decal in the engine bay suggested oils so I used them and NEVER had a problem.

It might be old school thinking but it works. :applause:

My 10c worth anyway.
Click to expand...

There may be some merrit to that, but the spec sheet on some of thier offerings is close to Rotella and some of the more "expensive" brands
 
crown14

crown14

Well-known member
May 11, 2006
6,288
4
Clayton, NC
Personally, I have put M1 in rover4x4's engine several times and I can say it has not hurt it any. On the other hand, I know for a fact that Reed Perry routinely hits up Jiffy Lube, and the inside of his engine is cleaner than the most. What it comes down to as far is buildup is 3000 mile oil changes. To keep wear to a minimum, the Rotella is the best oil, no doubt. But if you have been using regular oil, don't feel too bad.
I've always run regular 20w50 in my rovers (1500mi oil changes, I am maintenance minded like that) and never had a problem.
 
cdodkin

cdodkin

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2006
246
0
CA + AZ
www.d30-images.com
Chris-St Louis said:
VWs, from 2001-current (If I recall Correctly) REQUIRE oils that meet at least 501.000 505.000 is for the diesel and provides even MORE valvetrain protection. 505.001 is for the mid2003-current diesel and provides slightly more, but the cost difference is tremendous. So far, I found the Mobil 1 and Castrol Synthec 0-40 at the zone to meet 505. HOWEVER, check the bottle for sure, if it doesnt say 501/505 it doesnt meet that spec, regardless of brand.

Take a look at the sludging on VW 1.8 Turbo. People were using oil that only met SM (Useless in most cars on the road today) and the engine dtroyed that oil, and in turn destroyed the engine.
Click to expand...

Chris - just sold my 04 V6 VW Passat in '08, and I can confirm that VW moved away from 5w30 to Mobil1 0W40.

Approved oil chart for VW here: vw-oilchart

The turbo engine sludge issue was the catalyst for the change across the VW range - although I suspect that emissions played a role as well.

As I was already sourcing M 0W40 for my Porsches, it was 'business as usual' - just had to buy more when ever someone had a deal.

Mobil 0W40 has been the standard in the M96 engines on the 911 and Boxster for some time now - as they moved away from 5W50, and is the current factory fill for Porsche.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom