Here you go, Johnny Republican!

[GregH]

i thought someone would post a comment like this...Does that attitude justify the attrocities??? not in my opinion. Although you are correct and Norwegians generally are thankfull to the british, I have even helped with visits for Britis veterans to come back to Norway, and the Norwegians HAVE done the same for GERMAN veterans. (Blucher that was sunk in Oslo fjord)
Putting this logic to use in the present then the Iraqi insurgents are justified or why doesnt the US just napalm fallujah??????

Justified atrocities? I realize we are from two nations that are separated by a common language ( ) but try rereading my post because I never said that. I did, however, refer to civilian bombing. A tactic, BTW, which was started and actively pursued by your RAF after an accidental civilian bombing raid by the Luftwaffe.

My point was that even though atrocities occur, the Allies brought freedom to vanquished nations and even paid for rebuilding through the Marshall Plan (yes, I realize that it part of a strategy to offset Soviet expansion-it worked and subsequent generations of Western Europe live in peace and freedom rather than under war or Soviet totalitarianism). That does NOT justify atrocities. However, I'm sure you're fully aware that atrocities were not only accepted but were "justified" and even part of the strategic and tactical plans under the Axis powers (Nanking, Buchenwald, Dachau, einsatzgruppen, the Japanese Death March, etc. etc.).

It is certainly refreshing that the Norwegians would show forgiveness for German sailors. However, I don't think they (older Norwegians) would look at the kreigsmarine the same way they might see visiting ex-gestapo.

I do not understand your reference to my post "justifying" the beheadings and terrorist attacks by Muslim insurgents nor is anyone suggesting to "napalm" Fallujah. That's YOUR ridiculous assumption.

We here in the US frequently are reminded of the shame and horror of the My Lai massacre. I have yet to hear the Vietnamese government apologize or even admit to the incredible slaughter/murder/rape that they commited against civilians throughout the Vietnam war. Hell, My Lai is dwarfed by what the North Vietnamese did to civilians in the city of Hue during the Tet Offensive alone. Ask a Marine who was there retaking the city in '68 what he saw. Has anyone been convicted of those war crimes? Why isn't anyone protesting for their conviction? What about after Saigon fell in '75? Do you care?

 

[mikem]

When you cant leave after you served your time what do you call that??

A condition of the contract that you signed?

At least it was when I joined up.

 

[GregH]

The problem with the US military in Iraq is not that they are there, but they are not doing the job properly....
They are not winning the hearts and minds of the local population which IS what they need to do, to bring the situation there under control.
Why is it that they have a USMC unit in Iraq that is larger than the british forces combined, but are requesting the help of the british forces...
BBC reporter checks out both sides

I tend to agree with you here. Rotating troops out that have developed a rapport with locals and replacing with others who don't doesn't make sense to me. I also believe that our troops often do lack appropriate training to win the hearts and minds and act as stabilizing "occupying" forces.

You Brits seem to do this better. Possibly because of your painfully learned lessons in Northern Ireland?

Regardless, I think we both agree that the sooner a legitimate, strong Iraqi government can take over the better. The question is how soon and not doing so too soon.

 

[syoung]

I'm with Eric on this one.
"When you cant leave after you served your time what do you call that??" It's in the contract. If you sign a contract and don't read it, well tough sh*t.
I'm gonna bash a bit on the reserves- They cash their check every month, they get their college bucks, they get busy work/surf the internet one weekend a month and play Army two weeks a year. When it's finally time to go do the work for which they are in RESERVE, they freak. (not all, but a LOT)
WTF? Did they think we NEEDED part time weekend help that much that we'd pay them for nothing? "I gots me 5 kids..." well, F you and get to work. I don't give a rat's ass about their family situation, they cashed the checks all these years- go earn it. I had terrible family issues including a spouse with cancer when I was active duty, but I still did my job. This group that refused to deliver food and ammo to the troops because "it was dangerous" should all be strung up from a tree.

As for Norway dude... he gets his information from TV. Nuff said. To say that national healthcare works there- so what. This is a different country, so you can't really say whether it would work here basing it off another country. ::logic error::

 

[p m]

Why does a national healthcare system paid from incometax that treats everyone equally suck?????

Hope to God it's a rhetorical question, Quentin - if you seriously think it doesn't, you're hopeless.

 

[QCNR]

Hope to God it's a rhetorical question, Quentin - if you seriously think it doesn't, you're hopeless.

No I dont understand your fears of such a system. It has worked for me in Britain and now in Norway since I have been on this planet....(which is more than 3 decades)
Let me ask you guys this-
-Do you get medical treatment regardless of your socialstanding and income to the highest level available?
-Do you get sickness payment equivalent to your wages if you are ill for more than 3 days from work
-Do you get 4 weeks full pay whilst on maternity leave when you have a child?
-Do your wives get 11months full pay whilst on maternity leave for those 11 months?

I pay roughly 35% tax from my wages over the minimum allowance, however now that we have a child my tax will drop to about half that...

But hey the grass is never greener, just a different shade of green...

I suppose the main point is I am happy with the way my situation is, I just dont understand your fears of an inclusive system, rather than exclusive....

 

[mikem]

No I dont understand your fears of such a system. It has worked for me in Britain and now in Norway since I have been on this planet....(which is more than 3 decades)

Population of Norway: 4.5 mil. approx
Population of UK: 60 mil. approx.
Population of US: 293 mil. approx.

Unfortunately, the wonderful system that you enjoyed in Norway and the UK won't necessarily scale for a country the size of the US.

So why don't you stop trying to interfere with the internal politics of a foreign country.

 

[Blue]

Population of Norway: 4.5 mil. approx
Population of UK: 60 mil. approx.
Population of US: 293 mil. approx.

LOL, I was wondering when someone would mention this little fact..... Good post, Mike.

 

[p m]

No I dont understand your fears of such a system. It has worked for me in Britain and now in Norway since I have been on this planet....(which is more than 3 decades)
Let me ask you guys this-
-Do you get medical treatment regardless of your socialstanding and income to the highest level available?
-Do you get sickness payment equivalent to your wages if you are ill for more than 3 days from work
-Do you get 4 weeks full pay whilst on maternity leave when you have a child?
-Do your wives get 11months full pay whilst on maternity leave for those 11 months?

I pay roughly 35% tax from my wages over the minimum allowance, however now that we have a child my tax will drop to about half that...

Britain has arguably the worst public health system - dental, definitely.
Nevertheless... three quarters of my life I've lived in the country of government-provided health care. I was lucky, mostly since my parents, 2 grandmothers, and 2 great-grand parents were doctors - so they educated me in taking care of myself. 99.9% of the population wasn't that lucky.
Back to your questions, Quentin.
- I get medical tratment regardless of my social standing and income. I've been paying more or less the same amount in health insurance premiums over the last 10 years, and had exactly the same mediocre level of medical treatment. I would rather see the managed care health system to be done away with altogether.
- My sick time comes from my vacation time, which I don't have a problem with yet.
- Nearly every employer I know offers about 4 weeks or more of maternity leave near birth time
- the 11 months' maternity leave is disastrous for a woman's work and employment history. Due to this particular benefit offered by socialist system, my wife earns 35% less than me - and we graduated from the same college on the same year.

 

[QCNR]

- the 11 months' maternity leave is disastrous for a woman's work and employment history. Due to this particular benefit offered by socialist system, my wife earns 35% less than me - and we graduated from the same college on the same year.

Maybe in america, but not here, as employers in Norway are by law obliged to keep my wifes job open for when she goes back to work, and sofar whilst on maternity leave she has had a pay increase inline with her companies policy.

I am not trying to interfere with anyones internal politics simply replying to someones question. I am also not trying to pursuade you guys (or girls) that you have a crap system. Simply pointing out that there is an alternative system and that it works for me, so get off your high horses and calm down!!!!!
I also dont understand what population size has to with the issue, seeing as if everyone contributed in the form of tax instead of insurance premiums, your government would surely make money, the insurance companies surely do?????

I suppose well just have to agree that there is no way I am moving from Norway, its too good here, and you guys will never leave america.

Are you implying you lived in Britain??? Its not clear from your statement...
I have the opposite expierience (aswell as my family) that everything is hunkydory, however whilst living in Austria that had private healthcare, well stuff that...

 

[antichrist]

snip
So why don't you stop trying to interfere with the internal politics of a foreign country.

Now, regardless of the rest of what's being said, I'm curious if anyone else see's the irony of such a statement coming from this side of the pond?

 

[Steve]

Yes. It is ironic. Although it holds less irony than those that have decided to vote for Kerry mostly because "Bush forced us into war with lies of WMD".

"Today, October 31, 1998 is a great day for the Iraqi people. Today President Clinton signed into law the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998. The American people have given their support for the end of dictatorship and for democracy in Iraq. The INC welcomes this courageous and historic action by President Clinton and thanks him for it."

- Ahmad Chalabi, President of the Executive Council of the Iraqi National Congress

Clinton had two years to put his money where his mouth is and did little more than provide a bit of fodder for headlines. Bush stepped up to tidy up this leftover outstanding issue and gets bashed for it.

 

[MarkP]

I tend to agree with you here. Rotating troops out that have developed a rapport with locals and replacing with others who don't doesn't make sense to me. I also believe that our troops often do lack appropriate training to win the hearts and minds and act as stabilizing "occupying" forces.

You Brits seem to do this better. Possibly because of your painfully learned lessons in Northern Ireland?

Regardless, I think we both agree that the sooner a legitimate, strong Iraqi government can take over the better. The question is how soon and not doing so too soon.

Our troops are doing just fine. It's the politicians that could screw things up. Read Monday, October 25th, 2004 - War Plan Orange

http://www.belmontclub.blogspot.com/

 

[antichrist]

But he didn't even need to do that. All they had to do is wait awhile then walk in and remove 380 tons of explosives from Al Qaqaa, supposedly under US guard, but in reality pretty much abandoned. Alot of it being the explosive used to bring down Pan Am 103, with less than a pound.

 

[cptyarderho]

And by the way, my brother is in iraq. I'm still voting Bush.

It's strange, as far as the media is concerned, Bush is really screwing up the whole military, and yet, they still vote for him.... hummmmm... maybe the media is pulling the wool over your eyes on that one too?

Are you assuming the military vote just based on the war? I do not buy it. I would also argue that the military is made up of those for whom war is more acceptable (rightly so) so the military is not much of a cross section of the voting public.

 

[cptyarderho]

Fivespddisco- "Send your kid to die for oil money and then tell me who to vote for."

That's the kind of BULLSHIT that I'm sick of hearing.. FUCK YOU!!! I'm probably going to piss alot of people off when I say this but, Why did he join the millitary then????
I have a great deal of respect for anyone that takes a job that puts their life in danger and listening to crap like that really pisses me off..

Let me take a wild guess here, but much like other people i know they signed up to DEFEND AMERICA?!? lets see...
Sadam, no weapons, did not attack AMERICA
Bin Laden, uses planes, DID attack...
I wonder why they would be upset, hmmm

You sir are a festival of maturity and reason. We are all proud, Toby Keith should sing you a song...

 

[RBBailey]

Let me throw this bone...

I'm one of those that says we should have attacked Iraq, even without 9/11...

 

[Steve]

You are preaching to the choir. I've been saying that since I left there in '91.

 

[LostInBoston]

Let me throw this bone...

I'm one of those that says we should have attacked Iraq, even without 9/11...

I think everyone forgot about the first WTC bombing in 93. the one where clinton did NOTHING afterwards. wasnt there an Iraq connection after that also? im pretty sure there was intelligence sayign there was something, yet nothing was done after it. Just like nothing was done after the embassy bombing, and nothing was done after the USS Cole bombing.
Maybe peopl will realize that we really are stopping it. wow, imagine that a president that actually defends us, yet some people think that its actually hurting us.

 

[FIVESPDDISCO]

Wow Im getting killed here.


This is how i feal no party lines or real facts, just from the heart.

1 I do not see any obvious reasons other then oil to be in Iraq.

2 When you kill innocent people they will hate you. IE more terrorist

3 We did not finish the job in Afghanistan The elections went of just fine LOL

4 Bush has been on vacation more then any other pres. We are at war Try working from the pentagon thats why its there.

5 I feel bush has a daddy love me complex. He trying to do what his dad could not.



Again these are just my fealings. As far as the troops go I think they are being put in harms way for no good reason. I do suport them and i hope they all come home safe soon.