How's that Prius look now?

[nosivad_bor]

Civic hybrid is only 21k so its barely more than the normal car. I am not buying a hybrid to save on gas money. Frankly the rise in gas has not effected me cause I don't drive much. My motivation is this, I want a passenger car so I can preserve my Discovery. I want a car that I will not be embarrassed to pick up customers with or drive to a funeral in. I want the maximum gas mileage while not compromising comfort. If I want others to change their habits then I must also change my habits and that is the reason I want a fuel efficient car, ultimately I don't really care if its a hybrid or not, but I do like the fact that the hybrid is super low emissions, you can practically breath out of the tailpipe. :drool:

 

[jim-00-4.6]

I want a car that I will not be embarrassed to pick up customers with or drive to a funeral in.

And you're choosing a civic? :ack:

 

[Ed Cheung]

Why buy a Prius @ 42mpg when I can buy a Corolla @ 35 mpg for $10,000 less?

OK, lets do a little math here....

First, let assume gas price is at $4.00 (forever)
@42mpg, the cost per mile is $0.09524 ($4/42)
@35mpg, the cost per mile is at $0.11429 ($4/35)
------------------------------------------------
differences $0.019048 per mile

Car difference in prices $10,000.00



divided the car prices differences by the differences in gas cost=$10,000.00/$0.019048
=525,000 miles to cover the cost difference.
How long is that going to take to break-even assuming the battery in the Prius will run forever.

Hope my math is wrong, seems like no saving at all....

 

[nosivad_bor]

And you're choosing a civic? :ack:

Yeah I don't suffer from big ego.

I am embarrassed to drive up in a lifted disco with all sorts of shit bolted to it.

 

[jim-00-4.6]

Yeah I don't suffer from big ego.

I am embarrassed to drive up in a lifted disco with all sorts of shit bolted to it.

Good thing you don't have a big ego... does big anything fit in a civic?

I know a guy who's like 6'4" & 250+ lbs..
He drives a little civic looking thing.
Always reminds me of a clown car when I see him, all hunched up.
Doesn't look real comfy for a long drive.

Dude, buy what you want.
I had a toyota avalon (or something like that) for a rental for a week.
The ultimate in anon-a-car, I lost it in a parking lot.
It was zippy enough, but my legs hit the steering wheel or column no matter what I did with the seat.
Annoyed the hell out of me.

 

[msggunny]

OK, lets do a little math here....

First, let assume gas price is at $4.00 (forever)
@42mpg, the cost per mile is $0.09524 ($4/42)
@35mpg, the cost per mile is at $0.11429 ($4/35)
------------------------------------------------
differences $0.019048 per mile

Car difference in prices $10,000.00



divided the car prices differences by the differences in gas cost=$10,000.00/$0.019048
=525,000 miles to cover the cost difference.
How long is that going to take to break-even assuming the battery in the Prius will run forever.

Hope my math is wrong, seems like no saving at all....

Math is fun.

Ok, so with both cars lets assume the following.
First an average of 15000 miles annualy (about average)
Seccond that you will only keep the car for 3 years (about average)

With the 42mpg car you will end up spending $4285.80 in that 3 year period ($.09524 x 15,000 = 1428.60 x 3 = 4285.80)

With the 35mpg car you will end up spending $5143.05 in 3 years
($.11429 x 15000 = 1714.35 x 3 = 5143.05)

The difference is $857.25. This doesnt include what other operational costs could be involved for routine maint and parts failure.

so if you spend $10,000 less on the 35mpg car you are saving $9124.75 as long as the price of gas stays at $4.00 per gal.

Did i do that right?

 

[Ed Cheung]

Math is fun.

Ok, so with both cars lets assume the following.
First an average of 15000 miles annualy (about average)
Seccond that you will only keep the car for 3 years (about average)

With the 42mpg car you will end up spending $4285.80 in that 3 year period ($.09524 x 15,000 = 1428.60 x 3 = 4285.80)

With the 35mpg car you will end up spending $5143.05 in 3 years
($.11429 x 15000 = 1714.35 x 3 = 5143.05)

The difference is $857.25. This doesnt include what other operational costs could be involved for routine maint and parts failure.

so if you spend $10,000 less on the 35mpg car you are saving $9124.75 as long as the price of gas stays at $4.00 per gal.

Did i do that right?

NOOO,math is not fun.

addition info: assuming 15,000 mile driven per year, 525,000 mile to break-even for the extra cost on Prius takes.......... 35 years.


Ok, let's get a bit deeper, if you buy the corolla, and use the extra 10K invested in risk free US Bond with IRR..........on and on ....no matter what, hybrid is just a loser..

 

[p m]

Rob, what happened to that diesel Jetta?

Screw the Prius, and Civic along with it.
I can save more gas if I replace TH400 in my Wagoneer by a 4L80.

 

[mgreenspan]

The Honda Civic is nice; however, as far as size goes for people over 6' they must have done something to them. My dad gave me a 99 Civic in high school that he had leased. I fit fine back then when I was 6'1". My dad purchased a brand new Civic for my sister. When I am home and drive it I cannot get comfortable in the driver's seat with the seat all the way back and leaned back some also.

Something about that car just doesn't fit right. It's very nice for what you pay. Aside from being too small for anybody over 6'. There is also a wicked blindspot over your left shoulder that is worse than in any other car.

I will say this. He got her the most expensive non-hybrid model and it was incredibly inexpensive. It is small and peppy and fun to drive around, but just get a Honda Accord V6. Equally amazing gas mileage, much more comfortable, smooth auto transmission, and compared to a Rover it's like driving a racecar.

 

[ptschram]

Any Rover (even a Freelander if you can keep it running)>Any Hybrid!

It will require me to have a long commute before buying a newer vehicle will be more economical. Consider more expensive maintenance (most newer cars require synthetic oil), far more expensive insurance, car payments (argh!), on and on and on.

The folks who are taking a beating on getting rid of their less fuel efficient vehicles are practicing false economy and hurting themselves financially for the emotional advantage of not being as pained at the gas pump.

 

[Blue]

Math is no mystery folks. I think Rob has the right approach...he is not replacing a perfectly good car with a hybrid; simple math shows that this is a complete waste of money under normal circumstances. He is in the market for an additional car and he's shopping with economy and price point in mind. The Civic hybrid is one of the cheaper hybrids out there. It's up to him to decide if the premium charge for the hybrid technology in the Civic vs. the plain jane Civic is worth it to him.

Here's how I analyze it (all numbers taken from Honda USA website):

The 2008 Civic Sedan base MSRP is $15,010.

The 2008 Civic Hybrid Sedan base MSRP is $22,600.

That's a $7,590 premium for the hybrid technology.

The "gas savings" for the hybrid vs standard Civic is as follows:

Standard Civic = 30 mpg (average of city/highway per website).

Hybrid Civic = 43 mpg.

Assumptions: 13,000 miles per year; gas costs $4.00/gallon.

Hybrid will save $524 per year based on above data.

It will take 14.48 years of driving at 13,000 miles per year and $4.00/gallon to pay back the premium charge for the hybrid technology. This does not include any finance charges, it assumes that cash is paid for the vehicle at time of purchase. Any finance charges will lengthen the 14.48 years.

Based on my calculations, this is a big time loser of an idea. However, the Civic Hybrid is one of the cheaper hybrids out there so relatively speaking it doesn't look so bad.

For comparison purposes, here are the base model MSRPs and the "hybrid premiums" for other common hybrids:

Nissan Altima Hybrid: $25,480 ($5,010 premium)

Toyota Camry Hybrid: $25,650 ($6,730 premium)

Toyota Prius: $21,500 but you probably won't find one for the MSRP.

What it all comes down to is that people buy a hybrid for emotional reasons, not monetary reasons.

 

[jim-00-4.6]

Math is fun.

so if you spend $10,000 less on the 35mpg car you are saving $9124.75 as long as the price of gas stays at $4.00 per gal.

Did i do that right?

Good.
Now, let's further assume you will be financing the purchase of this vehicle.
I have NO IDEA what interest rates on car loans are these days, so let's just use 6%.

A quick look on cars.com shows a price difference of $6000:
Prius - $22,220
Corolla - $16,810
(i don't know if they're similarly equipped, I don't care that much)

MPG: (using EPA bullshit numbers)
Prius: 48 city 45 highway
Corolla: 26 city 35 highway
we'll use the 45/35 highway figures...

15,000 miles per year, let's say we keep it for 5 years, our loan duration.
75,000 total miles, assuming $4 per gallon.
Prius: 75,000 miles / 45mpg = 1667 gallons = $6668
Corolla: 75,000 miles / 35 mpg = 2143 gallons = $8572

Total payments @ 6%:
Prius: $22,220 + $3554 = $25,774
Corolla: $16,810 + $2689 = $19,499

Payments + fuel:
Prius: $25,774 + $6668 = $32,442
Corolla: $19,499 + 8572 = $28,071

Cost per mile, excluding maintenance (5 years as above):
Prius = $0.43256
Corolla = $0.37428

About $4400 over 5 years more for a Prius.
But at least you can "feel good" about "making a change" so you are "saving the environment".

What's the expected battery life for a Prius again?
Toyota apparently warranties them for close to 150,000 miles.

 

[adriatic04]

its the same "feel good" marketing scheme (math) that Chrysler is using in this dumbass 2.99 gas crap. Who in their right mind would take that offer over the other incentives that are out there on a new vehicle.

 

[Robbie]

anyone else ever gone to the hardware/lumber store, bought your goods, walked out and realized you brought the sedan instead of the rover and your shit won't fit? bought a simple piece of 4'x4' plywood a few weeks ago and that happened. thankfully i actually needed it in 2'x'4 sections so they just cut it in half and i was able to put the embarrassment behind me.

 

[mgreenspan]

anyone else ever gone to the hardware/lumber store, bought your goods, walked out and realized you brought the sedan instead of the rover and your shit won't fit? bought a simple piece of 4'x4' plywood a few weeks ago and that happened. thankfully i actually needed it in 2'x'4 sections so they just cut it in half and i was able to put the embarrassment behind me.

worse is when you completely forget what you were going there for and just wander around 'til you find it.

 

[akronk1]

Right now I picturing in my mind, the South Park episode where all the people who bought hybrids moved to CA, & got so uppity that they enjoyed the smell of their own farts.

 

[mgreenspan]

Right now I picturing in my mind, the South Park episode where all the people who bought hybrids moved to CA, & got so uppity that they enjoyed the smell of their own farts.

smug

 

[landrovered]

its the same "feel good" marketing scheme (math) that Chrysler is using in this dumbass 2.99 gas crap. Who in their right mind would take that offer over the other incentives that are out there on a new vehicle.

Then you have Chevy's new ad for pickups. "Over 490 miles per tank" WTF does that mean? Never any mention of the gas mileage just how far you can go between stops to unload your bank account into the gas pump filling that humongous tank.

Here is a math problem for you:

From above accepted premise:

Cost per mile, excluding maintenance (5 years as above):
Prius = $0.43256
Corolla = $0.37428


Paid for rover gets 15 mpg
cost of fuel $4/gal
cost of fuel per mile $0.266
cost of loan payment $0
cost of ownership $0.266 per mile

value of making sound financial decisions: PRICELESS

 

[Ed Cheung]

See, hondawhatever is not the only guy with a degree here, tons of us already had a PH.D in Accounting, Finance, etc..

 

[p m]

Robbie, I personally know of one physicist with a very advanced degree, who piled up 8 or 10 12-foot 2x6s on his Honda Del Sol.
The crap fell off in the middle of a road, and a guy in a pickup stopped, helped him to get the lumber off the road, and drove it to his place.
People who buy sedans use people who have trucks, vans, and SUVs when they need stuff moved. And they have not a slightest remorse.