INEOS Grenadier

[RVR OVR]

I’ve been looking at Tundras with the twin turbo V6 and the off road package (not the turd pro, just the turd off road package). Our local dealers are putting $15-20k markups on the turd pros right now.

I find the Diesel motors in the GM very interesting. The brand new 3.0L Duramax looks great for an entry level full size truck. Great MPG everyday use and Towing. After cross shopping that and the Toyota with the inflated prices and unproven drivetrain, I shifted to looking at the Chevy Silverado Trail Boss versions with the diesel which actually look pretty cool. That's what I showed my wife and she crapped all over the pickup truck idea.

So, I just spent time really looking at the Sequoia. The new one is nothing like my current one in terms of size so it offers little to no advantage over the Grenadier in my opinion other than more bling inside. A review I watched had people getting 10 MPG and the interior space is really bad now.

So, I am now thinking Grenadier again or maybe a Tahoe LS with the Diesel.

Of course after all of this, I will probably buy nothing, but it is fun to look around.

 

[Blue]

The Sequoia isn't a contender. It's obviously based on the Tundra platform but somehow it all comes together like crap. I looked at a sold Sequoia Turd Pro on the dealer lot and the customer paid an even $100K with the dealer markup. Crazy.

My wife is laughing at me looking at pickups. She knows I'm not a pickup guy. The Toyota dealer got his GM involved and they went full-court press on me. Priced out a Tundra Limited with the turd pro offroad package for me and the GM wrote in a $7,500 Market Adjustment. I told him never in a million years would I pay any kind of dealer bonus. He made a limp-dick effort at justifying it and then just crossed it out. A limited with turd offroad and a bunch of typical packages comes in $64,700. Then I'd have the dealer install a slight spacer lift (under warranty) to level it all out and let me get 35's on aftermarket 18" wheels under there (it comes with 20s). Then I'd need something along the lines of a Smartcap permanent hard bed cover to make it usable for me. But then I'm well over $70K and probably closer to 80k and I don't know if that's much better than what the Grenadier is selling. Would also have to decide if I want the too-short 5.5' bed or the too-long 6.5' bed. The most exciting parts are near-20 mpg on 87 octane with a 32-gallon fuel tank. I can only imagine going 600 miles between fill-ups. I have to fill this idiotic LR4 tank every 250 miles.

I'll have to take a look at what GM is offering. But I'm even less of a GM fan than Toyota.

 

[Blueboy]

Of course after all of this, I will probably buy nothing, but it is fun to look around.

Lol! That is how I am as well.

 

[DiscoHasBeen]

I don't know if that's much better than what the Grenadier is selling.

When it comes to service and support, availability of aftermarket accessories, and resale value, I'd say it's much, much better.

Around here 62k will get you this. And no dealer markup, at least there wasn't when I bought my Tacoma from there.

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[terryjm1]

I traded in my 2017 Canyon with 2.8 Duramax diesel a few months ago. I won’t buy another modern diesel, at least not for a very long time, What is needed to make them emissions compliant makes them both problem prone and more costly for repairs. I had a tune on mine that made it drive absolutely wonderful but the stock tune caused excessive wear in the transmission and it had that annoying dead pedal issue. I was planning to keep the Canyon for a very long time but the last straw was when the glow plugs quit working at 75,000 miles. Unlike my old diesel vehicles, changing glow plugs is an involved job.

The fuel economy was fantastic, averaging in the high 20s in all around driving and low 30s on the interstate. But, with the added cost of purchasing a truck with a diesel engine and the cost of repairs it needed I would have been much better off buying the gas version for overall cost of ownership.

Just my .02 cents but i suggest getting a gas powered anything unless you really need the power of a diesel.

That being said, I really liked the Canyon with a diesel. I just could see thousands of dollars of likely repairs needed not far down the road based on what I had seen reported by other owners on the diesel Canyon / Colorado forums. The early diesel canyons had injector issues that when they occurred usually destroyed the engines. They corrected those issues with a different injector and head after my 2017 was made. I might have talked myself into keeping it if mine had the later injectors and head.

 

[RVR OVR]

I traded in my 2017 Canyon with 2.8 Duramax diesel a few months ago. I won’t buy another modern diesel, at least not for a very long time, What is needed to make them emissions compliant makes them both problem prone and more costly for repairs. I had a tune on mine that made it drive absolutely wonderful but the stock tune caused excessive wear in the transmission and it had that annoying dead pedal issue. I was planning to keep the Canyon for a very long time but the last straw was when the glow plugs quit working at 75,000 miles. Unlike my old diesel vehicles, changing glow plugs is an involved job.

The fuel economy was fantastic, averaging in the high 20s in all around driving and low 30s on the interstate. But, with the added cost of purchasing a truck with a diesel engine and the cost of repairs it needed I would have been much better off buying the gas version for overall cost of ownership.

Just my .02 cents but i suggest getting a gas powered anything unless you really need the power of a diesel.

That being said, I really liked the Canyon with a diesel. I just could see thousands of dollars of likely repairs needed not far down the road based on what I had seen reported by other owners on the diesel Canyon / Colorado forums. The early diesel canyons had injector issues that when they occurred usually destroyed the engines. They corrected those issues with a different injector and head after my 2017 was made. I might have talked myself into keeping it if mine had the later injectors and head.

Supposedly the 3.0 Diesel solves problems with the prior ones, time will tell, though. I don't know enough about diesels to know recent problems and potential future stuff on the 3.0.

 

[RVR OVR]

The Sequoia isn't a contender. It's obviously based on the Tundra platform but somehow it all comes together like crap. I looked at a sold Sequoia Turd Pro on the dealer lot and the customer paid an even $100K with the dealer markup. Crazy.

My wife is laughing at me looking at pickups. She knows I'm not a pickup guy. The Toyota dealer got his GM involved and they went full-court press on me. Priced out a Tundra Limited with the turd pro offroad package for me and the GM wrote in a $7,500 Market Adjustment. I told him never in a million years would I pay any kind of dealer bonus. He made a limp-dick effort at justifying it and then just crossed it out. A limited with turd offroad and a bunch of typical packages comes in $64,700. Then I'd have the dealer install a slight spacer lift (under warranty) to level it all out and let me get 35's on aftermarket 18" wheels under there (it comes with 20s). Then I'd need something along the lines of a Smartcap permanent hard bed cover to make it usable for me. But then I'm well over $70K and probably closer to 80k and I don't know if that's much better than what the Grenadier is selling. Would also have to decide if I want the too-short 5.5' bed or the too-long 6.5' bed. The most exciting parts are near-20 mpg on 87 octane with a 32-gallon fuel tank. I can only imagine going 600 miles between fill-ups. I have to fill this idiotic LR4 tank every 250 miles.

I'll have to take a look at what GM is offering. But I'm even less of a GM fan than Toyota.

I had a 98 or 99 Tahoe that I paid something like 13,000 with miles somwhere in the teens - I think it was year old. It was an LS model with all cloth interior and if you recall, at that time, all SUV"s had to have the full baller package. It was a great car, really enjoyed it and it served me well. It was big enough for three car seats across the back seat and could tow my Rover on a trailer to destinations back when I did that. I think there are some GM products that are worth it.

Back to the trucks, I think GM and Ford is where the deals will be found. GMC is a dressier Chevy. They are nice, but I tend to not consider them when cross shopping as they have stuff I don't care about for a few grand more model to model.

I just searched locally and an LT Trail Boss with the 3.0 and Crew Cab came up for $800 less than MSRP at $64,680, so dealer is coming down rather than marking up. The downside is it has 20" rims on it, but it does have Goodyear Wranger MT's, lift, locking rear diff, etc.

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I went online and configured a bare bones Custom Trail Boss Crew Cab with a diesel, standard bed with 18" Rims that comes with Duratracs, which to me are great tires, for $56k. Probably impossible to find such a basic one on the lot but it could be ordered without fear of a massive dealer markup upon delivery.

If you drop the diesel and go with a 5.3 V8, which is better mileage than the Grenadier and LR4 and is a proven and reliable platform, you can knock a grand off the price. I personally would not go turbo 4 cyliner, which would knock another 2 grand off. If you want 4 doors but don't need the full crew cab - which is probabay similar to Grenadier back seat, it saves another couple grand. A two door...well you get it...

 

[luckyjoe]

 

[RVR OVR]

I guess I should have searched...

A V8 Trail boss near me for 53,730, which is already discounted close to 4k off sticker to start negotiations.

https://www.sunrisechevrolet.com/inventory/new-2023-chevrolet-silverado-1500-custom-trail-boss-4wd-crew-cab-3gcudcedxpg188454/?utm_campaign=cars.com_deeplink&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=cars.com

A deisel one in Michigan also discounted 4k

https://www.garberchevroletsaginaw.com/inventory/new-2023-chevrolet-silverado-1500-custom-trail-boss-4wd-crew-cab-3gcudce87pg276123/?utm_campaign=cars.com_deeplink&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=cars.com

 

[RVR OVR]

View attachment 64614

Fine looking rig, what is that setting you back all in?

 

[luckyjoe]

Fine looking rig, what is that setting you back all in?

$84.5

I built the base wagon with heated utility seats, heat-reflective glass, 5 alloy wheels, lockers, roof rack, all the electrical options - in Magic Mushroom. This will replace my '95 RRC LWB as a touring/off-road camping vehicle, plus add full remote work capability. Been looking for a few years and there is no other vehicle that I'm as comfortable in, and extends my off-road reach.

 

[RVR OVR]

$84.5

I built the base wagon with heated utility seats, heat-reflective glass, 5 alloy wheels, lockers, roof rack, all the electrical options - in Magic Mushroom. This will replace my '95 RRC LWB as a touring/off-road camping vehicle, plus add full remote work capability. Been looking for a few years and there is no other vehicle that I'm as comfortable in, and extends my off-road reach.

How does it satisfy "full remote work capability"? Just curious what that means. For me, it would mean internet and a laptop.

 

[DiscoHasBeen]

$84.5

84.5k for a vehicle from a company that may very well be out of business in 10 years. That'd a ballise move there, unless you use money to start the fire in your fireplace.

What are the chances they struggle and a company, like say JLR, swoops in and buys them up?

 

[luckyjoe]

How does it satisfy "full remote work capability"? Just curious what that means. For me, it would mean internet and a laptop.

Yeah, I'll have to figure much more out, but having the 2nd battery and power distribution will give me much more options than my single-battery vehicles. I will not be a van-lifer, but would like to monitor equipment back home and and at several locations.

84.5k for a vehicle from a company that may very well be out of business in 10 years. That'd a ballise move there, unless you use money to start the fire in your fireplace.

What are the chances they struggle and a company, like say JLR, swoops in and buys them up?

Time will tell, assuming the rest of the purchase process goes to plan. I'm ok with treating this as a '90's" LR, if I like it and it lives up to my expectations.

 

[Blueboy]

84.5k for a vehicle from a company that may very well be out of business in 10 years. That'd a ballise move there, unless you use money to start the fire in your fireplace.

What are the chances they struggle and a company, like say JLR, swoops in and buys them up?

Reminds me of my 2004 Saab which went out of business. However still enjoy owning / driving it and parts / service readily available. This came up on Ineous:
“Ineos, the company founded and run by the British billionaire Sir Jim Ratcliffe, will build an electric version of its new Grenadier off-road vehicle in Austria.”
Sounds like they’re in it for the long haul yet no doubt my crystal ball is pretty cloudy today.

 

[luckyjoe]

What are the chances they struggle and a company, like say JLR, swoops in and buys them up?

The recent news about says JLR is financially hurting compared to its competition. Not likely they will buy Ineos, more likely someone buys JLR, further opening the door for the Grenadier. The Gren also has Magna-Steyr behind it, so the platform could easily be picked up if Ineos folded or sold.

 

[bri]

So, I was thinking I would shift my focus to a full sized pickup truck to replace my Sequoia. My wife crapped all over that idea as she hates pick up trucks, even if she doesn't drive them. Considiring she is a good sport to the Rover, RZR, current stable of dirt bikes and trailers, and the past revolving door of toys, I am not going to push on that. This brings me back to SUV's that can tow at least 7,000 pounds. Jeeps and Bronco's can't, and this puts me into the likes of Tahoe, Expedition, new Sequoia, etc. Any Sequoia, and espeically Sequioa TRD currently cost more than the Grenadier and I am not all that interested in Tahoe's and Expeditions.

Trading style for size, I am at least staying in the game by placing a pre-order for a low spec Grenadier and will keep thinking until I get the price sheet from the dealer and have to fully commit. Only options I am adding are lockers, blue paint, white roof, and floor mats at the moment. I may bail on the color scheme and go back to Scottish White as PM did, not sure yet.

View attachment 64607

Dang that is ugly.

 

[p m]

A couple of years ago, we went to Death Valley in a group of all sorts of vehicles. I took my Classic that at the time had factory Borg Warner transfer case and no frills; one section had us going up a series of dry waterfalls. I was a little apprehensive of those (been there before), but somehow drove over without any wheelspin at all.
One in our group, arriving a little later, had to winch himself up a couple of these.
At this time, he drove a 4WD Tundra. He then told me that I couldn't imagine how bad this thing was off road.

 

[luckyjoe]

At this time, he drove a 4WD Tundra. He then told me that I couldn't imagine how bad this thing was off road.

A few years ago camping with the Scout Troop, one leader pulled the canoe trailer with a new Tundra, another drove their Dodge PU, and a Honda Ridgeline puled the Troop box trailer. Tons of rain that weekend, and the vehicles all parked 75 yards down a decently rutted (now mud) slope to the camp site. The Tundra could not get out pulling an empty canoe trailer, then bounced, slipped and it made it out without the trailer. The Scouts then hand-pushed the canoe trailer up the hill. Dodge driver had their head in their hands, so I drove it out for them. Next, I drove the Ridgeline slowly, right up the hill pulling the loaded box trailer and not skipping a beat.

 

[Blue]

The reviews I've seen of the new Tundras (2022 & 2023) seem to be good enough off road. Not necessarily stellar, but good enough. They redesigned the rear suspension in 2022 with coils instead of leafs which is what piqued my interest in the Tundra in the first place (in addition to looking to Toyota for reliability). But what really has me worried is all the freaking beeps from the parking sensors, lane departure warnings, cross traffic alerts, blind spot monitoring, seat belt chimes, etc. The damn things won't shut up. That would literally drive me insane. Then there's the shit like automatic parking brake applied if a door is ajar and you move more than a few inches. How annoying would that be? How many times do we hop in the driver's seat with the door open and your left foot hanging out just to move forward or backward a couple feet....staging just right for camping, hitching up a trailer, etc. Looks like a basic SR5 model would be the way to go to avoid a lot of the electronic driver-aid shit and then add on the turd off road package to get the rear locker and better suspension.