Issue with Terra Firma shocks

[Jake1996D1]

I get what 5x6.5 is saying. Instead of the frame-side radius arm mount being parallel to the ground (as it is stock), the face is angled downward to get rid of the bushing bind you would have when using a stock radius arm and adding 3" or more of lift (I used to have this). The pinion was at a decent angle for a double cardan driveshaft (maybe a touch too high, but not that big of a deal), but the castor is bad. Thus, you throw in the drilled swivel balls.

Or, just use a cranked arm and split the difference between optimum pinion angle and castor angle... and live with it.

Just seems like a lot of work for radius arms... if I am chopping off the mount on the frame side something worth my while is going back on...

You could also install dropped mounts. a lot of Bronco guys do this.. I will leave my opinion out on this. you be the judge

 

[KyleT]

Bilstein 7100's and use some of these on the shocks

http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Eibach-Micro-Cellular-Foam-Shaft-Bump-Stop-p-1354.html

NOO, you WILL rip the front shock towers off.

and yeah that bronco has 2 huge rock anchors on it now.. a buddy put some like that on hims fzj80 and it severely limited his abilities even on 36" tires and a 5"ish lift. It was VERY noticeable that they were there.

 

[Jake1996D1]

what about ripping shock towers off???? Mr. Lunchbox has been trying to sell me on those damn things forever.. He'll likely chime in, but I want to hear how you ripped off your shock tower

 

[KyleT]

shock bottoms out onto the bump stop, upward force is then transmitted through the shock body, into the shock mount, back down to the 4 tiny studs that hold the shock tower/turret on and rip them out... this happened to me. took out 3 on one side and 2 on the other...

google how beefy bump stop mounts are then look at the turret retaining ring and see how it is in no way shape or form strong enough.

I solved the issue by outboarding the front shocks and mounting the bumps to the frame using a mount.

 

[p m]

I don't think this is what he's saying, but...
I'd still go for lowered frame-side trailing arm mounts if Frank or somebody else makes a pair for me.

 

[Mongo]

Should have elaborated, use them with a extended bumpstop and your gonna save your shock from bottoming out. You can't use them as a stand alone bumpstop.


Patience Peter...

 

[fishEH]

Should have elaborated, use them with a extended bumpstop and your gonna save your shock from bottoming out. You can't use them as a stand alone bumpstop.


Patience Peter...

What's the point if you have extended axle bumpstops? Are they a failsafe if the axle bumps break?

 

[Mongo]

yep, I've seen many busted, cracked, ripped off, and plain failed extended bumpstops. Seriously, when was the last time you guy's checked your bumpstops?


piece of mind for your investment

 

[seventyfive]

What's the point if you have extended axle bumpstops? Are they a failsafe if the axle bumps break?

the evs/urethane shock bumps actually act as a part of your suspension. they are not intended to be actual stops, but help add some progressive damping when you get close to bottoming out.

im sure you know this, but you should always keep in the back of your mind that all the rubber bushings are factored into the suspension design i.e. when you install new radius arm bushings, control arms, panhard bushings, etc the proper way to tighten everything down is at ride height after the suspension has settled, the bushings now have axial resistance which aids in the compression and rebound...think as stock bushings as torsion bars kinda. when we replace bushings with poly, heims, etc now the suspension is free to move which puts all the responsibility of the suspension on the shocks and springs.

adding the bumps that frank posted actually does a great deal of help with controlling compression. especially when you set your suspension up for minimum compression and full droop. so if your like me with only about 4.5" of shock piston exposed you arte better off adding a shock bump...they will compress a good deal before you hit your bump stop.

 

[LRflip]

wtf are bumps stops?

 

[5x6.5]

Lowering the radius arm mounts sucks ass!!!! Kinda defeats the reason of a lift. GROUND CLEARENCE!!! Thats why moving the mount forward 1" puts the axel back in stock location when lifting 3"+. I'd like to use the fox bump stops but havn't found a good mount to use yet. Of course I'd still use the extended poly bump stop.

Has any one put the bumpstop outbound on the frame and used the radius arm. I've seen some people do this on non-land rover builds. Not sure if it would put stress on areas that could cause issues. I was kinda thinking to mount the fox bumpstops in this location.

 

[D Chapman]

I can't imagine that by moving the axle forward 1" rotates the pinion angle back down when running 3" springs.

 

[seventyfive]

Has any one put the bumpstop outbound on the frame and used the radius arm. I've seen some people do this on non-land rover builds. Not sure if it would put stress on areas that could cause issues. I was kinda thinking to mount the fox bumpstops in this location.

i wouldnt suggest that. it will act like a lever with the bump in the middle of the radius arm. it is the easiest approach, but not the best. i have the prothane 4.5" bumps, and it is a pain putting them on my D2, but you just have to cut the original bump mount off the frame then weld nut or riv nut the frame rail to bolt the bumps on. the 4.5" bumps should be fine for 5" and below lifts.

 

[5x6.5]

I can't imagine that by moving the axle forward 1" rotates the pinion angle back down when running 3" springs.

It doesnt!

Question: What happens to a Land Rover axel when you lift it?

Answer: The taller the lift the more the axel moves back. Its not much but on 3"-5" lift its about an inch.

So if your going to fab a different radius arm bracket to adjust the angle of the bushings it only makes sense to move it forward to put the axle back. Its hard to tell that the axle has moved back but if you do a few measurements you'll see the difference.

RTE cranked arms are 1.2" longer than TF or QT arms not mention the bend in the arm to correct the angle. Have you ever heard of anyone having a problem with the RTE arms bending? when lifting 3" it moves the axle back 1 1/8" with stock arms and no fab to the mount.

 

[Mongo]

Lowering the radius arm mounts sucks ass!!!! Kinda defeats the reason of a lift. GROUND CLEARENCE!!! Thats why moving the mount forward 1" puts the axel back in stock location when lifting 3"+. I'd like to use the fox bump stops but havn't found a good mount to use yet. Of course I'd still use the extended poly bump stop.

Has any one put the bumpstop outbound on the frame and used the radius arm. I've seen some people do this on non-land rover builds. Not sure if it would put stress on areas that could cause issues. I was kinda thinking to mount the fox bumpstops in this location.

It does if you bolt it the bottom of the frame...but if you use a bracket on the frame, you can place the bracket and actually increase up travel. Why would you use both a poly bush and hydro bump stop? All your doin is taking up non-exsistent space. A Light Racing jounce shock will mount in the stock location.

It's waste of time to cut and weld anything for a 3" lift (unless your mounting pads for hydro bumpstops on the axle) and it's a big Maybe that it needs to be done on a 5" lift when running Land Rover suspension components.
You can move the axle 6" forward or backwards and it's not going to change the pinion angle. Move the bracket up and down on the frame, that will, but not enough to justify the amount of work when you can bolt on a castor corrected arm. If your going to go thru all the trouble of cutting and welding, dump the LR shit, make a real 3 link with coilovers and be done with it.

 

[5x6.5]

It does if you bolt it the bottom of the frame...but if you use a bracket on the frame, you can place the bracket and actually increase up travel. Why would you use both a poly bush and hydro bump stop? All your doin is taking up non-exsistent space. A Light Racing jounce shock will mount in the stock location.

It's waste of time to cut and weld anything for a 3" lift (unless your mounting pads for hydro bumpstops on the axle) and it's a big Maybe that it needs to be done on a 5" lift when running Land Rover suspension components.
You can move the axle 6" forward or backwards and it's not going to change the pinion angle. Move the bracket up and down on the frame, that will, but not enough to justify the amount of work when you can bolt on a castor corrected arm. If your going to go thru all the trouble of cutting and welding, dump the LR shit, make a real 3 link with coilovers and be done with it.

I do like the way you think, :bigok: I was just making a point. Some people just dont undersand what all changes on an axle when doing a lift. My way of doing things saves money, its just a lot of work, if you have the time and know how but dont have the pocket book you can get the same results with out spending the money.

 

[p m]

Lowering the radius arm mounts sucks ass!!!! Kinda defeats the reason of a lift. GROUND CLEARENCE!!! Thats why moving the mount forward 1" puts the axel back in stock location when lifting 3"+.

First, no it doesn't. It doesn't defeat any purpose at all, your axles will still be a lot lower than radius arm mounts. If you do it nicely, you can reinforce the framerail as well.

Speaking of moving the axle forward. The length of the radius arm is about 52"; my math shows that lowering the axle 3" moves it back about 0.1". You'd have to lower it about 10" for it to move back an inch.

 

[fishEH]

I do like the way you think, :bigok: I was just making a point. Some people just dont undersand what all changes on an axle when doing a lift. My way of doing things saves money, its just a lot of work, if you have the time and know how but dont have the pocket book you can get the same results with out spending the money.

Why not just cut and weld up some cranked/cator corrected RTE-style radius arms if you're cutting and welding anyways?

 

[Jake1996D1]

Speaking of bump stops, Terrafirma just released bolt on hydraulic bump stop mounts. You can see them in the new catelogue

 

[robertf]

First, no it doesn't. It doesn't defeat any purpose at all, your axles will still be a lot lower than radius arm mounts. If you do it nicely, you can reinforce the framerail as well.

Speaking of moving the axle forward. The length of the radius arm is about 52"; my math shows that lowering the axle 3" moves it back about 0.1". You'd have to lower it about 10" for it to move back an inch.

That is if the stock radius arm is at a flat angle to the ground. I think it is closer to 15 degrees.

stock arm angle 0
stock x length 52
lift height 3
lift x length 51.91338941
length delta 0.08661059

stock arm angle 15.00
stock x length 50.23
lift height 3.00
lift x length 49.33
length delta 0.90