LR3/D3 lift?

Gride7

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2004
54
0
45
Los Angeles
My German is non existant! How much is this kit? And has anybody tried it?

Also, is there anything else that anyone has made or found yet to lift LR3s more?

Thanks,
G
 

MarkP

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
6,672
0
Colorado
Considering the fact that the LR3 runs the rear axle driveshafts through the frame rails and moves the wheel relative to a fixed diff, doesn't this limit the realistic lift range?
 
G

gil stevens

Guest
absolutely.. thats the inherent structural issue that there is no getting around.
 

nwoods

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2006
467
0
SoCal
www.nextstepdesigns.com
MarkP said:
Considering the fact that the LR3 runs the rear axle driveshafts through the frame rails and moves the wheel relative to a fixed diff, doesn't this limit the realistic lift range?

To some extent perhaps, but not so much as you might think. The halfshaft CV joint is flush to the outside of the frame, so it can and does have a wide range of motion. The effect on the CV's with a more exteme angle is a better question. To date, there are a few LR3's that are driving around with a permanent 2.5" lift on springs (not the air shocks), which is the equivalent to always being in off road mode (with air shocks). So far, no problems or issues with the CV joints at that height on full time basis.

Here are a few photos:

- http://www.nextstepdesigns.com/images/LR3/underside/CV-Output-Shaft-rear-06.jpg
- http://www.nextstepdesigns.com/images/LR3/underside/CV-Output-Shaft-rear-02.jpg
- http://www.nextstepdesigns.com/images/LR3/underside/CV-Output-Shaft-rear-03.jpg
- http://www.nextstepdesigns.com/images/LR3/underside/CV-Output-Shaft-rear-05.jpg
 

MarkP

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
6,672
0
Colorado
nwoods said:
The effect on the CV's with a more exteme angle is a better question. To date, there are a few LR3's that are driving around with a permanent 2.5" lift on springs (not the air shocks), which is the equivalent to always being in off road mode (with air shocks). So far, no problems or issues with the CV joints at that height on full time basis.

Yeah, that would have been my next question, CV longevity. Fooling the air suspension control unit to think it is in off-road mode would also seem to have some drawbacks.

Does the LR3 adjust the camber angle when it is in off-road mode? It would have to add negative camber to maintain proper tire contact. Off-road a positive camber may not be noticed but running that on a permanent basis would be an issue.
 

RBBailey

Well-known member
Jul 26, 2004
6,758
3
Oregon
www.flickr.com
I would think the high setting would be at a point where CV failure was unlikely to occur because you would hope that they would choose a point where there is still a safety margin of operating limits. For example, 2.5" is OK, but we know if you go to 3" you may start seeing CV problems, so we will limit it to 2.5" for you.

BTW, I have an idea for solving the LR3 lift issue... portals. Of couse, someone would have to actually design them from the ground up for the LR3 -- $$,$$$!
 

nwoods

Well-known member
Apr 1, 2006
467
0
SoCal
www.nextstepdesigns.com
RRBailey, it may not be soley an angle issue, it is probably a factor of angle and speed. Perhaps that is why the stock LR3 lowers itself back down at 30mph. At 2.5" all is well, at 3" and 60 mph, perhaps vibration starts to develop and disintegrates the CV joint? No one really knows. I can't afford to find out.

Regarding camber adjustment...I'm not sure, but I have not noticed any perceptable camber issues on raised LR3's, even in +13" Super extended mode. I know that once I lifted mine, I DID have to realign the tires.

NW
 

MarkP

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
6,672
0
Colorado
Probabliltiy of failure will increase as stress increases. At the operating limit of 2.5" the probability of failure will be higher than at normal operating point of 0". That is driven by mechanical fatique, angles, rotational speeds and stress.

Each operating point, 0" 1", 1.5" 2" 2.5", will have it's own probability of failure that contributes to the total system mean time to failure. An importantant component of this equation is the amount of time the 'system' spends at each operating point. Land Rover mechanical / reliability engineers will use this data in a life cycle model for your 'typical' usage profile. This then provides a failure rate model and a mean time to failure that is used to calculate warranty cost. There is a science to this and there is a reason products have specific warranty durations. If you increase warranty duration then service cost will go up as predicted by the reliability curve for the specific product. If you operate outside this predicted warranty curve than the manufacturer may void your warranty.

That said, operating at the extended range of motion places the system at the higher probability of failure operating point and will result in a shorter mean time to failure. This is why all systems try and reduce stress over time.
 
M

magliondee

Guest
hi guys ref this post theres a company in uk called frogsisland that are stocking the black box option at ?1200 and the shocks at ?2555 was considering it for a new project but might try german crowd if cheaper,thanks dee
 

JamesWyatt

Well-known member
Apr 10, 2005
1,640
0
Allen, TX
discoweb.org
MarkP said:
Probabliltiy of failure will increase as stress increases. At the operating limit of 2.5" the probability of failure will be higher than at normal operating point of 0". That is driven by mechanical fatique, angles, rotational speeds and stress.

Each operating point, 0" 1", 1.5" 2" 2.5", will have it's own probability of failure that contributes to the total system mean time to failure. An importantant component of this equation is the amount of time the 'system' spends at each operating point. Land Rover mechanical / reliability engineers will use this data in a life cycle model for your 'typical' usage profile. This then provides a failure rate model and a mean time to failure that is used to calculate warranty cost. There is a science to this and there is a reason products have specific warranty durations. If you increase warranty duration then service cost will go up as predicted by the reliability curve for the specific product. If you operate outside this predicted warranty curve than the manufacturer may void your warranty.

That said, operating at the extended range of motion places the system at the higher probability of failure operating point and will result in a shorter mean time to failure. This is why all systems try and reduce stress over time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLZPIqwMmvk
 

derekdilks

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2006
189
0
Harrisburg, PA
magliondee said:
hi guys ref this post theres a company in uk called frogsisland that are stocking the black box option at ?1200 and the shocks at ?2555 was considering it for a new project but might try german crowd if cheaper,thanks dee

I went to their site and it's a fucking disaster.... What a piece of shit. Please let me know how you make out w/ the German co. I want to order one of these yesterday but need to see it or get some testimonials first.... Thanks
 
M

magliondee

Guest
hi ref frogsisland site i think its being updated not sure, but they did send me all info i required which included a translated brochure of the german stuff,trying to see if camera will take decent pic to post here,its times like these i wish i had a scanner,bear with me a minute or two ,thanks dee
failing that email eddie@frogssisland4x4.com and he will hopefully give you the info you <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/magliondee/DSC00331.jpg" border="0" al<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/magliondee/DSC00330.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>t="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>want<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/magliondee/DSC00329.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a><a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/magliondee/DSC00328.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a><a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t142/magliondee/DSC00332.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>
 
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dbregman

Guest
Okay - I know it is not the BEST translation, I used an online tool. But it sould give some more in on the Matzker kit...
One note though - before spending the money on the Matzker, I would look at bigger tires. Running the 285/60/18 Nitto's give an extra 1+".


------

The Discovery 3 / Range Rover Sport disposes of a heights-variable air cushioning system with three positions. The lowest vehicle height is the Beladehöhe. It is planned for driving speeds to 35 km/h. By this height the chassis has no springs. The standard-driving height lies 50 mms higher. It is planned for the street company in all speed areas. Besides there is the offroad driving height which lies 55 mm higher. Besides, by this driving height the chassis has a not headable reserve of other 70 mms which it releases only automatically if the vehicle lies in the area. With the ELECTRONIC HANDLING OFFROAD KIT we would like to use the possibilities not fully exhausted with this system of a heights-variable air cushioning. It concerns a bus calculator CAN with which the vehicle can be lowered by the driving heights "street" and "Offroad" by hand by keystroke about 23 mms or be raised to 26 mm. With it the Discovery 3 / can do Range Rover Sport with an additional device streets-optimizes tiefergelegt as well as for the offroad application hochgelegt become. The application examples in the singles: With the HANDLING KIT the Discovery 3 / Range Rover Sport can be lowered by the standard-driving height about 23 mms. The air resistance thereby decreases in highway journey and the driving stability perceptibly increases. Also in speedy journey on winding country roads the lower side inclination and the improved road holding is an advantage. By the offroad driving height the vehicle can become about other 26 mms hochgelegt. The advantage is clear, because with a clearance of approx. 275 mms (according to ripe dimension) lying the vehicle can be avoided instead of releasing the height reserve when the vehicle already sticks. In offroad tests we have found out that it is mostly too late to deliver the suspension if the vehicle already lies. Then the bicycle suspensions can squeeze into the soft subsoil and the car sticks. If, however, from the start the bigger clearance is available, running aground can be avoided. Nevertheless, lowering on the street as well as raising in the area are only the most frequent applications of the ELECTRONIC HANDLING OFFROAD KIT. An important area of application is also the driving on bad streets and ways. Here the Discovery 3 / can become a Range Rover Sport also in the street position hochgelegt. Then the ride comfort increases quite considerably, because more Einfederweg is available. Seidenweich swallows the chassis hard pushes. If the speed rises permanently more than 100 km/h, the high lapping is led back. This is another advantage, because the production offroad height can be used only to 50 km/h. With the ELECTRONIC HANDLING OFFROAD KIT the variability of an aerial feather system can be exhausted individually. Where earlier feathers and shock absorbers had to be altered, now is only a button pressure urgently.
 
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derekdilks

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2006
189
0
Harrisburg, PA
magliondee said:
hi ref frogsisland site i think its being updated not sure, but they did send me all info i required which included a translated brochure of the german stuff,trying to see if camera will take decent pic to post here,its times like these i wish i had a scanner,bear with me a minute or two ,thanks dee

Thanks, I e-mailed the frogsisland people too.
 

PCFRover

Well-known member
Apr 24, 2004
254
0
NorCal
We need you to order one and let us know how it works...

dbregman said:
Okay - I know it is not the BEST tranlation, I used an online tool. But it sould give some more in on the Matzker kit...
One note though - before spending the money on the Matzker, I would look at bigger tires. Running the 285/60/18 Nitto's give an extra 1+".
------
 

gordonwh

Well-known member
Gride7,

Unfortunately not yet - something called work keeps getting in the way ....

I've got a set of drawings, and I'm at the stage of arguing with the fabricator over the correct materials to use. Prorbably won't have a set made up before end of April.

Cheers,

Gordon