Need confirmation, and advice.

[knewsom]

My head gaskets have been, shall we say, iffy, for a little while - leaking oil and coolant a bit but not terribly bad, for awhile. They were not together, until recently, I believe. I've been preparing myself mentally to have to do my heads soon - and I was hoping to do them before any serious damage occurred. Today, however, I found this:

http://picasaweb.google.com/ksnewsom/Disco#5433405228789917538

Yep, that's the underside of the oil filler cap. Condensation, and some foamy green schmutz. Smelled like... kinda nasty vegetable broth. I'm pretty sure this means coolant in my oil, and therefore, the time to pull my heads has come. ....there are complications.

I'm nervous about pulling the heads and doing this myself now - since this has happened. I'm also worried about trying to fix this in the wintertime in DC, and I've never done a head gasket repair before. I'm not a total idiot and I'm comfortable with a wrench in my hands, but with this in the "blown" category instead of the "leaky" category, I'm rethinking my original plan. What would you guys do?

...and in getting an estimate, A, how much should I expect, and B, how much should I pay, if I go the mechanic route?

TIA guys, as always.

-K

 

[stu454]

Heads around Atlanta go for around $2k at the right shop. That includes machining.

I'm going to suck it up and do my own soon. It should run me about $500 total, which is a helluva lot better than $2k.

Good luck, in any event.

 

[knewsom]

Heads around Atlanta go for around $2k at the right shop. That includes machining.

I'm going to suck it up and do my own soon. It should run me about $500 total, which is a helluva lot better than $2k.

Good luck, in any event.

Thanks man, good luck to you too. Have you ever done a head gasket before?

 

[stu454]

Nope. That's what makes it more exciting

BTW, my buddy that rarely post here did his D1 heads in the driveway. Off one weekend and back on the next.

He's good but by no means a mechanical prodigy. The truck is still going strong (knock on wood).

 

[knewsom]

Hell yeah. That's awesome man. You're encouraging me! I kinda wish it wasn't so dang cold right now, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

When you go to remove the intake manifold, which set of instructions do you use? MFI? SFI?

 

[stu454]

Not sure what MFI and SFI is?

 

[knewsom]

me neither. The workshop manual referred me to use the fuel system section to remove the intake manifold, but it's not entirely clear by the manual which system is on my V8. I'll consult RAVE.

Huh, ok - so RAVE is just a CDROM with PDFs of all the different shop manuals? Well, back to the shop manual.

 

[mbrummal]

You have SFI (sequential fuel injection). I did my head gaskets in my driveway as well. Not terribly hard to do, just take you time. Cost me a little over $500 (on a a D2). ~200 for the gaskets and ~300 at the machine shop getting machined a valve job.

 

[p m]

I don't know if PT would agree with that or not, but my take on the HG job was: if you don't do it as a result of overheating, your heads may be flat enough not to need resurfacing.
A GEMS D1 is probably the simplest V8 Rover to do the HG replacement - if you don't machine the heads, you could be done in 6-7 hours (there are people much faster than that, my best time was about 9 on a late Classic, 2 of these were spent on cleaning up the heads after removal).

 

[knewsom]

Thanks Mason - that's exactly what I needed to know. Good to know too that it's not really that hard.

PM - thanks for the encouragement man, I'm hoping hoping hoping that the heads don't need to be machined.

Whatever happens, I'll probably try to do the valve seals and clean up my valves as much as possible - probably still gunky from living in CA.

 

[p m]

Why does living in CA makes valves gunky? I think the opposite is true, especially if you're not hesitant to merge 80mph traffic from standstill.

But wait for another opinion on the heads' machining.

 

[bmn1965]

At least take the heads to a machine shop and have them check them out for worn valve guides etc. that's a lot of work if there's something that you can't see or even know to look for and you have to do it again 6 months down the road!!!!!

 

[Drillbit]

As rover gaskets can't be reused and your time is worth something I would say it's worth it to get them machined. Shop around on prices, I get mine done for 180 a pair for getting cleaned tested and surfaced. Even if it's 500 if something happens and they did need surfaced you end up buying another head gasket set and swearing a lot.

 

[p m]

At least take the heads to a machine shop and have them check them out for worn valve guides etc. that's a lot of work if there's something that you can't see or even know to look for and you have to do it again 6 months down the road!!!!!

Part of my head cleaning included taking off the valves, cleaning valve seats, and lapping the valves ever so slightly. I don't have much of experience here, but in a few heads I've worked on the worn valve guides manifested themselves quite clearly.

Nothing beats clean heads with shaved mating surfaces, though.

 

[jhmover]

I had mine off at 119k. I had the heads done. As long as you already went to all the trouble to take them off and replace them why not have them done?

 

[d1driver]

Send a PM to eliaschristeas on here and get a copy of his In Search of the Experience video. Pretty good walk through of the process of changing the HG's on the same engine you have.

I just went through this process. My dad and I had the heads off in just over 2 hours. The longest time waster is cleaning everything real good and waiting on the heads to get back from resurfacing. We also struggled a little bit trying to get the power steering pump off without removing the pulley or the pump from the bracket it rides in.

I believe anyone can do this job if they pay attention to details and take their time with it. It is messy, but not complicated at all. I would help for free if I were closer to you!

 

[Two Cold Soakers]

Hey - Word about the filler cap gunk.

You're from Cali, living in DC? Listen up.
If it gets below 30 degrees (f) and you drive short trips, that condensation/gunk is typical. Wipe it clean with a rag, drive it for an hour at speed and cook it away. If you're really worried, change the oil and flush the crankcase in April.

Don't break open the motor JUST BECAUSE OF THE SLUDGE ON THE CAP. Check individual spark plugs - If you've got other issues, well, do what you gotta do, but that condensation and grey sludge is a normal part of wintertime with an older engine.

 

[knewsom]

Wow, thanks guys for the great advice and encouraging words. I'll definitely send elias an email about that video - it'd be reallllly helpful to be able to actually SEE what's going on and witness the breakdown.

It may be worth it to have the heads professionally machined and the valves done by a pro, I'll have to price that - any recommendations for the area? I actually wouldn't mind doing it myself though, truth be told. I tend to be of the mind of "well, while I'm at it, I might as well...." - it'd be nice to have that operation under my belt, if only for the learning experience. Is there tolerance information for the heads and valve guides?

RE: California gas - I've been told that it gunks up engines. ....and yeah, uh, zero trouble merging at 80 mph... I learned to drive in San Diego, learned stick in San Francisco, learned to ride a motorcycle in CHINA, and lived in LA for almost 2 years with zero trouble. Me likey driving.

Two Cold - that's a very interesting notion, the gunk being from the cold. It brings back memories of my old VW bus getting similar condensation in Northern Cali, even though it was air-cooled. What makes me think that this is probably the heads though is because the heads already had a problem and I knew it was just a matter of time before this started happening, and the sludge is greenish like coolant.

If the head gaskets ARE fubar, wouldn't driving it an hour at speed be like really, really bad? Shouldn't I pretty much not be driving this thing until I fix this problem? I mean, maybe a little bit, but surely not for an hour?

Also, another question for the pros, regarding the air conditioner compressor - the shop manual says to remove the compressor, which involves decompressing the system. Where did you guys go to have that done? Are there capture systems you can purchase and then bring back to a shop with the captured gas in it? This stuff's nasty, I don't want to just release it. Should I have a shop do that while it's there? I'm having the pressure regulator in my brakes replaced and then the lines bled - it started leaking and they barely work. I hate bleeding brakes, it takes forever and it's BORING, so I'll pay someone to do something like that just to save me the mental anguish.

Again, thanks guys very much for the tips and confidence. I'm definitely gonna do this myself. OOC, how much do new valve guides typically cost?

 

[ptschram]

Stop driving it now!

You're gambling putting an engine back together if you have intermixing of the oil and coolant. Pull the drain plug and capture the first liquid that comes out. If it's not oil, you've got a 50/50 chance of it not overheating in the first ten minutes of operation after the headjob-ask me how I know this.

Good luck.

W/R/T the A/C just lay it off to the side.

 

[chemtool]

You do not need to depressurize the AC system just unbolt the compressor and set it out of the way/work around it. I did my own head gaskets as my first bit of engine work (did a few other things on my truck before). I just followed the shop manual and asked questions when they arose. I also machined my heads, best $75 I spent as they ended up being fairly twisted.