New Bronco

DiscoHasBeen

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2016
517
106
Indy
When we took the motor out of my CJ7 I found a T18 transmission with a compound gear at 6.32:1, or a granny gear as we called them back then. Looking back I can't say that was money well spent. I almost never rock crawled, mostly mud and as such I needed to be in a gear capable of spinning the tires to clean them out. Spent most of my time in 2nd gear when wheeling.

The manual vs auto... I'd like to think I was pretty dam good at operating both the brake and gas pedals at the same time with my right foot, but I remember being pretty envious of the guys with autos. Just so much easier to control the power delivery to the axles with a auto.
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
9,011
247
AZ
Just speculation, but I would have to guess its open. Otherwise what's the point?
I believe the point is to let you see down alongside the vehicle while off-roading. So having glass (or better yet Lexan or plexi) in there shouldn’t take away from the purpose. I think it would be cool to have that vantage point but not so cool to have that massive hole in the body (thinking water ingress, mud, hot or cold air, etc). Maybe it’s just a gimmick.
 

luckyjoe

Well-known member
Oct 10, 2004
311
30
New Jersey USA
And your sig just reminded me: non-synchromesh gearbox is even worse. Wheeling Landylass’s old IIa around pay-to-plays in Wales got old quicker than I thought it would.
I don’t know. I agree an auto box is easy to drive, and that even in auto there are different flavors both good and bad. But there is nothing more satisfying than driving my IIA 109’s crashbox both on- and off-road. Then again, I put 250k miles on my ‘03 5spd Jetta Tdi Wagon, before handing it over to my son. Yeah, he got that gene too...
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,478
65
High Point, NC
For anyone who wants to know the smartest tech thrown at a manual it's this. The auto-brake for backward movement. For the teenagers who haven't mastered the steep slope start from a stop. It took the heart thumping experience away but it also saved many bumpers along the way.

Or, just use the e-brake, if you absolutely must.
 
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pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
1,344
78
minnesota
For anyone who wants to know the smartest tech thrown at a manual it's this. The auto-brake for backward movement. For the teenagers who haven't mastered the steep slope start from a stop.
My dad's Mini had this feature.

It was a surprise at first...kinda cool. Then it started to get annoying on some smaller hills.

I'm generally not a fan of technology that promotes incompetence of basic skills.
 

SCSL

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2005
4,112
131
I'm generally not a fan of technology that promotes incompetence of basic skills.
All technology promotes incompetence of "basic skills" by rendering those skills obsolete. The cartridge rendered the muzzle loader obsolete and, along with it, what at the time would have been considered the "basic skill" of operating a musket (or similar). The automobile rendered the basic skill of operating a horse obsolete, which is why the vast majority of people don't know how to ride and control a horse. Most people lack what was, for my father in his youth, the "basic skill" of operating a slide rule, because calculators. The butcher rendered most reading this "incompetent" of the basic skill of skinning, gutting and carving their own meat.
 
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pinkytoe69

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2012
1,344
78
minnesota
All technology promotes incompetence of "basic skills" by rendering those skills obsolete.

Most people lack what was, for my father in his youth, the "basic skill" of operating a slide rule, because calculators.
The thing is, the calculator and slide rule are both tools to speed up calculation.

However, they still teach you the "manual" skills required before putting the tool to use. Either tool would be useless without that foundation.

If I don't know what differential equations are doing, neither the slide rule nor calculator are going to make much of a difference in the final (likely incorrect) result.

Automobiles were a replacement for horses, not a feature update.

This is more like someone inventing a horse that can perform via voice input only.

I.e. it lets you ride a horse without knowing how to ride a horse. That's dumb IMHO.

Whatcha gonna do if you need to drive a horse/car without it?
 
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brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,478
65
High Point, NC
All technology promotes incompetence of "basic skills" by rendering those skills obsolete. The cartridge rendered the muzzle loader obsolete and, along with it, what at the time would have been considered the "basic skill" of operating a musket (or similar). The automobile rendered the basic skill of operating a horse obsolete, which is why the vast majority of people don't know how to ride and control a horse. Most people lack what was, for my father in his youth, the "basic skill" of operating a slide rule, because calculators. The butcher rendered most reading this "incompetent" of the basic skill of skinning, gutting and carving their own meat.

So one must ask, why do we even have manual transmissions? I'm not sold on the price excuse.

I'd say the fun factor has the majority. Part of that thrill was shitting the pants if I late model Bentley pulled up right behind you on a steep incline.
Can I get an AMEN!
 

SCSL

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2005
4,112
131
The thing is, the calculator and slide rule are both tools to speed up calculation.

However, they still teach you the "manual" skills required before putting the tool to use. Either tool would be useless without that foundation.

If I don't know what differential equations are doing, neither the slide rule nor calculator are going to make much of a difference in the final (likely incorrect) result.

Automobiles were a replacement for horses, not a feature update.

This is more like someone inventing a horse that can perform via voice input only.

I.e. it lets you ride a horse without knowing how to ride a horse. That's dumb IMHO.

Whatcha gonna do if you need to drive a horse/car without it?
I see your point.
 

SCSL

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2005
4,112
131
So one must ask, why do we even have manual transmissions?
I can only speak for myself. I simply find them more enjoyable to drive on the pavement then an auto. i feel more connected to the driving experience. And it prevents me from reaching for the phone, which is a bad habit of mine.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
5,810
306
Northern Illinois
So I did some research cause of your post...

I didn't know you are supposed to rev-match when downshifting!
Thats why I said it's just quicker and less abusive to disengage the clutch. Downshifting without the clutch is just holding some pressure on the shifter as the speeds align. The synchro and blockers are cones. When you push them against each other the friction should bring them to the same speed and then the teeth on the rings slide into the sleeve.So you get a feel for where all these speeds are and just put a little pressure on the shift lever. It's kind of ugly.
 

Blueboy

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
2,327
121
Back in the USA; Rockwood, PA
So I did some research cause of your post...

I didn't know you are supposed to rev-match when downshifting!
At one time it was called “heel and toe”.
It was one reason why Porsches had floor hinged gas pedals. You could brake and blip the throttle with the right foot and clutch with the left. It was / is a telltale sign of a person that was taught / shown how to properly drive a performance car with a clutch.
 

bri

Well-known member
Apr 20, 2004
5,726
30
US
On a manual trans when you put it in a gear it just stays there. It doesn't take a bunch of fluid held at pressure in channels and sealed pistons and valves and solinoids, solinoids to keep the pressure just right. Just all kinds of shit going on just to stay in one gear cruising at one speed. Then add all the gear changes and different pistons and seals and springs and planetary gear sets. Heat is the automatic transmissions worst enemy.

Once you master not burning up the clutch on launch or even other bad habbits will burn a clutch. But once you learn and don't abuse the clutch, it should last the life of the vehicle. So once you master that, there really isn't much to go wrong. You put the thing in gear yourself, it stays there till you put it in the next gear. Almost nothing going on in the trans but a bunch of oil being splashed around lubricating everything.

I like hand mixers because I am old school. I have 180,000 miles on a 2012 Cruze with the original clutch.
I have owned between 1 and 4 land rovers at a time for 25 years all automatic. Never had anything wrong with the transmission and never had the need "clutch" start one.

Knock on wood.
 

discostew

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2010
5,810
306
Northern Illinois
I have owned between 1 and 4 land rovers at a time for 25 years all automatic. Never had anything wrong with the transmission and never had the need "clutch" start one.

Knock on wood.
ZF transmissions rarely fail. The exception being the Disco2 loosing drive in any range.
 
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brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,478
65
High Point, NC
ZF transmissions rarely fail. The exception being the Disco2 loosing drive in any range.
I had a code thrown on mine. Something about a solenoid failure, torque converter lock code. Was a bunch of BS. Dealer put in an entire new transmission. Not on my dime though.