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agro1
Guest
The only idiot here is you. It's a well proven FACT that the P38 EAS is plagued with problems and it's reliability is horrible when compared to a coil sprung P38.Freeloder said:
What a joke. I love it when some yahoo is headed down the path to failure and when someone points this out said yahoo insists that even if he fails he's "being original" or a "pioneer" or some other shit. In this case, it isn't original and it's not pioneering. You know how we all know that P38 EAS is doomed to failure no matter how modified it is? BECAUSE LOTS OF OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TRIED TO MODIFY IT!
I'm personally familiar with at least 4 trucks with heavily modified EAS and they all fail all the time.
I know andrew parker's truck with it's bullet hole stickers and swiss cheese skid plate. it sure as hell isn't "legendary". The only thing famous about it is it's near destruction in Truckhaven trying to follow a little Sami.
The only thing I don't understand is how Luke is still motivated, after all these threads, to go on preaching the coil conversion gospel. He's like the new Steve Cooper. Maybe Luke just throws up the posts in the hope someone will be dumb enough to try to argue the merits of EAS and then he can get a little sparring in.
sheesh.
I'm personally familiar with at least 4 trucks with heavily modified EAS and they all fail all the time.
I know andrew parker's truck with it's bullet hole stickers and swiss cheese skid plate. it sure as hell isn't "legendary". The only thing famous about it is it's near destruction in Truckhaven trying to follow a little Sami.
The only thing I don't understand is how Luke is still motivated, after all these threads, to go on preaching the coil conversion gospel. He's like the new Steve Cooper. Maybe Luke just throws up the posts in the hope someone will be dumb enough to try to argue the merits of EAS and then he can get a little sparring in.
sheesh.
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agro1
Guest
LOL
I don't think Andrew is trying to convince anyone that EAS is superior to coils. He is interested in making it work on his truck and asking for any knowledge that might be out there about options he isn't aware of. I've wheeled with him and I can't remember ever hearing him telling anyone else to keep the EAS and avoid coils.
If I bought a P38 the first thing I would do is remove the EAS and put on some coils. In my observation it's an unreliable, complex suspension system that is limited compared to the options available with coils, and is a PITA to work on to boot. However, I admire Andrew's doggedness in trying to make the EAS work offroad even if I happen think it's a losing battle.
I don't think Andrew is trying to convince anyone that EAS is superior to coils. He is interested in making it work on his truck and asking for any knowledge that might be out there about options he isn't aware of. I've wheeled with him and I can't remember ever hearing him telling anyone else to keep the EAS and avoid coils.
If I bought a P38 the first thing I would do is remove the EAS and put on some coils. In my observation it's an unreliable, complex suspension system that is limited compared to the options available with coils, and is a PITA to work on to boot. However, I admire Andrew's doggedness in trying to make the EAS work offroad even if I happen think it's a losing battle.
ptschram
Well-known member
GregH said:
In spite of my having a computer, and my occasional successes in repairing disabled EAS, I'd still follow this course of action. I wheel my rigs. I have enough things happen too far from a paved road to risk a suspension failure that could mean my having to hike 10-12 miles to the nearest paved road, all the while listening to my wife comment on how I shouldn't have tried the obstacle!
But, I'm also well known for reinventing wheels doing things others think ill-advised. As a result, if it's not going to result in CERTAIN failure, I'm not gonna bash somebody for following their own interests-misguided though they may be.
Peace,
PT
sven95lwb said:I just realized this thread is a year old....and EAS still sux in my book
Interesting how it went from Sept. to Sept. I wasn't looking at the year either. Glad Freeloder brought it back up because the other morning I went out to move the P38 and what did I find to my surprise... EAS Fault.
Now which air bladders should I get
OME
OEM
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P
P38MeMate
Guest
I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack.
Greg thanks for the email.
Well what can I say in operating my P38A over the last 5 years with EAS. I have eight bladders for sale. I have four off road outtings were the passenger side rear bladder peeled and blew out all its air and a cracked front top cap which not even my home spun elaborate bypass system could do much about. An O-ring kit for the valve block a new compressor and lots of o-rings for all those blasted air lines. As I'm sure in some circles will know the EAS has litterally worn me out and I conceed to the mighty wisdom that was languished during the early entries to this thread.
So, here we are and as of this evening I managed to get the second set of Blue Monsters installed on the front end were the center cap to fender's edge measures 23-24 inches. We are talking about 9 and 11 inches of wheel travel front and rear respectively.
Steve Cooper, your air time at Pismo was very inspiring. It was indeed during that observation that I considered the relative spring rates provided by the EAS system are far to samll a number for true off road performance on a P38A chassis.
But I will always confirm that the air bag suspension has far greater ability to isolate the chassis from road bourn anomalies and thus makes the P38A a very comfortable vehicle.
And for those of you who are EAS faithful just watch that passenger side rear air bag. You will peel it eventually if you really take your rig into some challenging trails. The carbon fiber radius arms are quite flexable for good reason. But when you load the rear wheel with the EAS in extended mode the reaction forces about the axel along with the forard drive torque is enough to unseat the bladder. The bang from the 70 or so PSI which comes out imedaitely is a sound I know all to well.
Greg thanks for the email.
Well what can I say in operating my P38A over the last 5 years with EAS. I have eight bladders for sale. I have four off road outtings were the passenger side rear bladder peeled and blew out all its air and a cracked front top cap which not even my home spun elaborate bypass system could do much about. An O-ring kit for the valve block a new compressor and lots of o-rings for all those blasted air lines. As I'm sure in some circles will know the EAS has litterally worn me out and I conceed to the mighty wisdom that was languished during the early entries to this thread.
So, here we are and as of this evening I managed to get the second set of Blue Monsters installed on the front end were the center cap to fender's edge measures 23-24 inches. We are talking about 9 and 11 inches of wheel travel front and rear respectively.
Steve Cooper, your air time at Pismo was very inspiring. It was indeed during that observation that I considered the relative spring rates provided by the EAS system are far to samll a number for true off road performance on a P38A chassis.
But I will always confirm that the air bag suspension has far greater ability to isolate the chassis from road bourn anomalies and thus makes the P38A a very comfortable vehicle.
And for those of you who are EAS faithful just watch that passenger side rear air bag. You will peel it eventually if you really take your rig into some challenging trails. The carbon fiber radius arms are quite flexable for good reason. But when you load the rear wheel with the EAS in extended mode the reaction forces about the axel along with the forard drive torque is enough to unseat the bladder. The bang from the 70 or so PSI which comes out imedaitely is a sound I know all to well.
P38MeMate said:
I'm still hanging in there with the EAS, but I haven't done the height increases that you have. I'm in the process of hanging a lot more weight on my P38 (front winch bumper, sliders, and rear bumper with tire carrier), so it will be interesting to see how the EAS holds up to that additional load.
I figure I'll be changing over to slinkies one of these days, but I'm not at that point yet.
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agro1
Guest
Pugsly said:
Yeah Pugs, it'll be really interesting to see how your air springs handle the extra weight - LOL...good luck with that.
This thread is proof of what I've already said many times (as have countless others), the EAS is crap. Evidenced by the fact that even Andrew, who to his credit spent the last year trying to make them work, gave up and has gone to coils.
The only interesting thing here is that you continue to ignore the facts.
But hey, it's your truck...
agro1 said:
Luke, talk is cheap. You could've come to Sidewinder last Saturday and shown what could you do.
I've been skeptical for years watching Joe Aiello trail-riding his P38 on airbags, until I swapped airbags for coils in my LWB. I've already put rear airbags back in, and am thinking of putting the front ones (and maybe converting Disco to airbags). The bags are _very_ reliable, and if you do your own plumbing using your own air pump, you can do away with the issues of EAS electronics.
FWIW, I have never seen Aiello's EAS to fail on him - it must've happened, and more than once, but I guess he knows how to deal with that. Anyhow, last Sat. there was a pretty good display of what can be done with air-suspended P38.
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agro1
Guest
p m said:
Talk is cheap ? What talk is that ? I don't remember making any claims that would require me to come out and support them on the trail, Peter.
All I've ever said is that springs are MUCH MORE RELIABLE than airbags. You cannot deny that. And furthermore, I've never said that airbags do not perform well, WHEN THEY WORK. Problem is they have a MUCH HIGHER FAILURE RATE THAN COILS.
Hey, if you wanna spend the extra time and money making an inferior system work, be my guest.
agro1 said:
This made me wonder. To whom it is a very well know fact? To people who, like it has been mentioned before, could not make it work?
Let's see... Maybe, I'm not talking about P38 EAS, but airbag setup in general, so feel free to correct me.
- it takes about 10 minutes to replace an airbag, no special tools required (may be different on P38).
- it has exponentially progressive spring rate - you won't bottom out with airbags.
- you can switch between highway mode (valve is shut on any of the bags) or enhance articulation (all airbags are interconnected)
- you can raise or lower suspension at your will; it is very easy to modify to achieve 1-2" lift (by spacers under airbags and modification of height sensors).
I can probably think of more benefits of air suspension. Since you're at a certain point of hacking into your Rover, you may either modify the EAS, or make your own controller, or just get a handful of 12V air valves (or use the stock valve body), a pump, and receiver tank and do whatever you please.
Yes, converting EAS to coils makes your truck simpler. But it doesn't say anything about offroad capabilities. And that's where the comment about the talk came in - you could wheel along with an EAS P38, and see if coils would've fared better or worse.
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agro1
Guest
Peter - Like I said; it's your truck, go for it.
You can also change a spring in the same amount of time.
You can still "bottom out" with airbags. They only suspend the truck, just like a coil. They don't work magic and they compress just like a spring does.
They do not have "exponentially progressive spring rates". Just becasue you increase or decrease the air pressure doesn't mean the rebound rate increases or decreases. Changing the air pressure simply raises or lowers the trcuk. Less air, firmer (highway) ride - more air, softer (offroad) taller ride. The rebound rate stays the same.
If having multiple settings is that important to you, great.
Yes Peter, you can do more with air suspension - BUT AT WHAT COST ??? And I'm not talking about $$$$, I'm talking about reliability.
The simple fact is that air springs that are electronically controlled have a higher failure rate than coil springs. And ANY failure rate that can leave you stranded is a liability.
You can also change a spring in the same amount of time.
You can still "bottom out" with airbags. They only suspend the truck, just like a coil. They don't work magic and they compress just like a spring does.
They do not have "exponentially progressive spring rates". Just becasue you increase or decrease the air pressure doesn't mean the rebound rate increases or decreases. Changing the air pressure simply raises or lowers the trcuk. Less air, firmer (highway) ride - more air, softer (offroad) taller ride. The rebound rate stays the same.
If having multiple settings is that important to you, great.
Yes Peter, you can do more with air suspension - BUT AT WHAT COST ??? And I'm not talking about $$$$, I'm talking about reliability.
The simple fact is that air springs that are electronically controlled have a higher failure rate than coil springs. And ANY failure rate that can leave you stranded is a liability.
FWIW After I converted to coils, I broke 3 height sensors from offroading with a 2" lift (sensors were left installed). Now if I did the same offroading with EAS and the sensors broke, would I have been "Up Shits Creek"? Im guessing Yes
agro1 said:
I've done a lot of both - and there's no comparison. It's somewhat moot, since you aren't planning on swapping coils springs.
Luke, ever tried to squeeze a syringe with the output hole capped?
P*V = constant (fair guess if your airbags don't leak in a fraction of a second and don't heat up or cool down as fast).
P is pressure in a vessel, V is the volume inside this vessel. As the volume decreases, pressure increases. The airbags being sleeves over rigid base work similarly to the syringe. The spring rate will increase as the volume decreases.
So is your engine, and there's no escaping that. You claim that eliminating a simple piece of electronics from your suspension makes your truck more reliable, meanwhile, keeping an infinitely more complicate electronic engine management with many more components.
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agro1
Guest
I can't believe I'm still debating this....
Again Peter, do whatever you want man. If you think it's such a great idea go for it. There's a reason why professional offroad race/rallye teams use springs. They are a superior design, perform better, last longer and require little to no maintenance. But I guess you know more than all those professionals...
And last time I checked my engine managment system has never failed or left me stranded - but my EAS did, multiple times.
Yes, it's very difficult. Ever put that same syringe in a vise and cranked it down ?? Cause that's the amount of pressure you'd be looking at with your trucks weight. And guess what, the syringe/airspring will burst, or maybe an airline or whatever you use to "plug the line".p m said:
Again Peter, do whatever you want man. If you think it's such a great idea go for it. There's a reason why professional offroad race/rallye teams use springs. They are a superior design, perform better, last longer and require little to no maintenance. But I guess you know more than all those professionals...
LOL - are you for real ?? You consider the EAS a "simple piece of electronics" ???p m said:
And last time I checked my engine managment system has never failed or left me stranded - but my EAS did, multiple times.