Since when is this ok?

[Drillbit]

I'm asking this here because no one likes any of you anyway. What happened in Dallas was terrible. I'm glad that guy is dead. Since when do cops have robots that carry bombs to kill people? The federal government once bombed striking coal miners and the shit heads in philly dropped a bomb on some black nationalists in the 70's but I kinda thought using bombs was no Bueno. No one seems to be talking about this.

 

[az_max]

In this scenario, I'm fine with it. The suspect was in an active gun fight with the police. He had already shot multiple people and had indicated he had bombs. Not knowing if there were other shooters or where they were, they need to stop the situation. They did an excellent job of saving more lives. I'm surprised more people were not injured in the mele`.
I certainly can't see PD using this for every active shooter or barricade. The cost of the robot alone is greater than some department's budget for the year. And I certainly don't want to see this become the norm.

 

[discostew]

I'm asking this here because no one likes any of you anyway. What happened in Dallas was terrible. I'm glad that guy is dead. Since when do cops have robots that carry bombs to kill people? The federal government once bombed striking coal miners and the shit heads in philly dropped a bomb on some black nationalists in the 70's but I kinda thought using bombs was no Bueno. No one seems to be talking about this.

I'm fine with it. I give extra points for creativity.

As far as nobody liking us anyway, your probably right. My plan for getting the last word is epic. My oldest son has agreed to put at the very bottom of my tombstone a simple message to the world. It's going to say "I didn't like you either"

 

[Howski]

Saw someone mention this on Facebook and on its face it's a bit troubling, however why not use the best tools possible to take out the bad guys? In instances like this I'm fine with it but the use of bombs in most other circumstances would be concerning

 

[mgreenspan]

I would be interested in knowing the process of who decides to use the robot. I'd it is the on scene commander of the aituation, who agency he or she is from, or if they have to get governor or judge approval. It is absolutely a planned murder out of safety necessity; however, I'd hate to see this be the new fall back. Can you imagine the random raid of the wrong house by bomb carrying robot?

And how long until we have robot lives matter protestors?

 

[emmodg]

A man chooses - and is actively murdering innocent police officers and anyone getting in his way and we're questioning the use of a tool to kill this person? What in the fuck???? Really? How is a police sniper bullet to the head different than a police bomb to the body - they both equal neutralization of the shooter. I applaud it, support it, and am damn happy to have it!

 

[Paul Grant]

The idea of using a robot is brilliant. But, why take an advancement such as this and use it to kill the perpetrator when the technique could enable you to capture him? If you have the technology to deliver a deadly explosive device, you have the ability to deliver an incapacitating device.

 

[1920SF]

I'll be interested to see what details come out. We used them in Iraq, frequently, to kill folks that were believed to have suicide vests on and/or be in VBIEDs (i.e. they were driving a big suicide vest). In those cases, which used exactly the same robot as what the police were using here, if the individual was a known threat (i.e. the rules of engagement criteria had been met to kill them) and we didn't have granularity on whether or not they were wearing a vest or had a kill switch wired in to the vehicle, the bot would go up and place a kicker charge and fall back and then the entity would be 'rendered safe'

Is that appropriate for day to day policing? Of course not. Was this day to day policing or the dawn of an era of assassin robots? Likely not. Afterall, the robot didn't kill the guy-the EOD tech driving the robot did, no different than the aforementioned SWAT sniper bullet or an assaulting SWAT guy doing two to the chest, one to the head. Who the on-scene commander was, and what the specifics were as negotiations continued will be important to know of course-but if the guy was alleging there were IEDs and such as is what was reported, and he was the apparent shooter as also seems obvious this wasn't a quick hit-it was drawn out. At the end of which it appears to boil down to: play stupid games, you win dumb prizes.

Kudos to the Dallas PD for not putting another officer in harm's way given what we know about the situation at this time.

 

[mgreenspan]

For the dweb record I think the robot was completely justifiable. My post may have made it seem contrary. I think it's a great tool but could see if it's misused the blowback could be epic disastrous.

 

[jhmover]

Considering what was going on I have no problem. They tried to negotiate with the guy, he didn't go for it.

That being said, blasting away with a howitzer would have been more therapeutic.

 

[kade]

I would guess it was total improv seeing that the robot was probably used for the bomb squad to take out other bombs. I think it is great because it likely saved at least one SWAT members life. They advance in on him and he just starts spraying. The robot avoided that. Bravo. Will this be standard practice? No. Just an exigent circumstance that called for a desperate measure.

 

[jrose609]

Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. 1 (1985)[1], was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that, under the Fourth Amendment, when a law enforcement officer is pursuing a fleeing suspect, he or she may not use deadly force to prevent escape unless "the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."

The officers were justified to stop a threat to the public. PERIOD.

A rifle is a tool. The MURDEROUS piece of shit who shot 11 people and killed five officers used a tool to carry out his murder spree. The robot also was a tool. A tool in the hands of a trained officer who prevented more officers from being killed.

The bomb tech who drove that robot deserves a medal.

 

[AbnMike]

Will this be standard practice? No. Just an exigent circumstance that called for a desperate measure.

That's what people said when police departments were only seizing drug dealer's cars and cash in the 1980s - then it grew to seizing all personal property and deploying electronic means of taking credit and debit cars even when merely suspected of dealing (or the police department wanted money) for people travelling through the state - and you have to prove you are innocent to get it back.

I think this is a horrible precedent and that people who think it was one time use are naive and not paying attention.

http://oklahomawatch.org/2016/06/07...ces-to-seize-funds-loaded-onto-prepaid-cards/

http://priceonomics.com/how-police-officers-seize-cash-from-innocent/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/stop-and-seize/

 

[mgreenspan]

http://oklahomawatch.org/2016/06/07...ces-to-seize-funds-loaded-onto-prepaid-cards/

Haha. Who uses prepaid cards with large amounts of money? I don't see this one expanding the way you theorize.

 

[emmodg]

That's what people said when police departments were only seizing drug dealer's cars and cash in the 1980s - then it grew to seizing all personal property and deploying electronic means of taking credit and debit cars even when merely suspected of dealing (or the police department wanted money) for people travelling through the state - and you have to prove you are innocent to get it back.

I think this is a horrible precedent and that people who think it was one time use are naive and not paying attention.

http://oklahomawatch.org/2016/06/07...ces-to-seize-funds-loaded-onto-prepaid-cards/

http://priceonomics.com/how-police-officers-seize-cash-from-innocent/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/09/06/stop-and-seize/

And the paranoia begins! Bring the slippery slope argument. It's the man - he's coming for us! Grab your camo, your guns and your bible! Head to the hills! Tap your inner patriot! Finally - a chance to look all kick ass operator-like!

Bring on the robots with bombs!

 

[kade]

Well if you aren't a drug dealer or a terrorist, you won't have to worry about either happening to you.

 

[1920SF]

And the paranoia begins! Bring the slippery slope argument. It's the man - he's coming for us! Grab your camo, your guns and your bible! Head to the hills! Tap your inner patriot! Finally - a chance to look all kick ass operator-like!

Bring on the robots with bombs!

Let's just hope people remember the snacks this time.

 

[rovercanus]

Well if you aren't a drug dealer or a terrorist, you won't have to worry about either happening to you.

Or maybe have a name or address similar to a drug dealer or terrorist. Or have a broken tail light.

 

[AbnMike]

Or maybe have a name or address similar to a drug dealer or terrorist. Or have a broken tail light.

Exactly - or if people had actually read the articles before commenting and showing ignorance:

the seizure of hundreds of millions of dollars in cash from motorists and others not charged with crimes, a Washington Post investigation found. Thousands of people have been forced to fight legal battles that can last more than a year to get their money back.

There have been 61,998 cash seizures made on highways and elsewhere since 9/11 without search warrants or indictments through the Equitable Sharing Program, totaling more than $2.5 billion. State and local authorities kept more than $1.7 billion of that while Justice, Homeland Security and other federal agencies received $800 million. Half of the seizures were below $8,800.

But in 41 percent of cases — 4,455 — where there was a challenge, the government agreed to return money. The appeals process took more than a year in 40 percent of those cases and often required owners of the cash to sign agreements not to sue police over the seizures.

Agencies with police known to be participating in the Black Asphalt intelligence network have seen a 32 percent jump in seizures beginning in 2005, three times the rate of other police departments. Desert Snow-trained officers reported more than $427 million in cash seizures during highway stops in just one five-year period, according to company officials. More than 25,000 police have belonged to Black Asphalt, company officials said.

Or if you are Chinese and going to buy a restaurant:

A 55-year-old Chinese American restaurateur from Georgia was pulled over for minor speeding on Interstate 10 in Alabama and detained for nearly two hours. He was carrying $75,000 raised from relatives to buy a Chinese restaurant in Lake Charles, La. He got back his money 10 months later but only after spending thousands of dollars on a lawyer and losing out on the restaurant deal.

Or if you're going to buy a used car:

A 40-year-old Hispanic carpenter from New Jersey was stopped on Interstate 95 in Virginia for having tinted windows. Police said he appeared nervous and consented to a search. They took $18,000 that he said was meant to buy a used car. He had to hire a lawyer to get back his money.

Or if you own a BBQ business:

Mandrel Stuart, a 35-year-old African American owner of a small barbecue restaurant in Staunton, Va., was stunned when police took $17,550 from him during a stop in 2012 for a minor traffic infraction on Interstate 66 in Fairfax. He rejected a settlement with the government for half of his money and demanded a jury trial. He eventually got his money back but lost his business because he didn’t have the cash to pay his overhead.
“I paid taxes on that money. I worked for that money,” Stuart said. “Why should I give them my money?”

But hey, you know, as long as you aren't a drug dealer or terrorist and not doing anything wrong....

 

[Drillbit]

Or maybe have a name or address similar to a drug dealer or terrorist. Or have a broken tail light.

The cops have been to my house twice where they got the address wrong. Once I was in the process of selling a gun to a friend. If my blinds had been open it might have got bad. Once the cops knocked on my door at 2am claiming a "lost" cell phone was pinging from my house.
I got stopped, taken out of my car, and questioned for 25 minutes in Arkansas. The reason stated for this is that I was driving a truck I had just bought with Arizona tags and "A lot of drugs come through here."
I carry over 10k in cash when going to buy cars all the time.

If you think that only criminals have to interact with the police and that honest citizens have nothing to worry about you are ripe to be the next statistic.