Suspension question, searched w/o answer

[MC97D1]

I've read multiple threads on suspension since owning a D2 and now a D1. They're usually all so muddled with opinions about minutia that I still have no clue what to do.
My setup currently is a 97 D1 with an OME HD 2" lift, TW double cardon DS, and 255/85/16s. I'm obviously overtired at the moment, but cutting some rear fender cured most of that. I'd like to keep this disco for a while as a fun only vehicle especially since I just spent a lot of time and money rebuilding and stroking the 4.0 to 4.6. I was thinking of just adding 1" spacers all around and getting new shocks (current ones are 11 years old as are the springs). I don't want to change anything afterwards though. It is a loaded down truck with ARB winch bumper, winch, sliders, roof basket, and soon to be off road rear bumper (not sure which yet). I've been eyeing the 4.5" lucky8 springs as a one and done deal with some longer shocks. I've already changed the A-arm bushing and would like to not venture there again. What all would I need at this point to successfully (no rubbing and minimize driveline vibrations/misalignment) add either 1" spacers, or go with the 4.5" springs? I'm not looking for a budget blowing truck, just a well lifted and funtional one. Again, I actually have searched over the past couple years, but have never found a definitive answer. TIA for any help.

 

[robertf]

It doesn't matter what springs you run, you need to lower the bump stops

4.5 will require cranked radius arms up front, cranked trailing arms in the back, extended a-arm, and longer brake lines.

I had OME and 1.25" spacers on mine for a while with 235s with stock suspension linkage. It rode OK on the highway. I'm not sure it would clear larger tires. I never tried.

 

[MC97D1]

It doesn't matter what springs you run, you need to lower the bump stops

4.5 will require cranked radius arms up front, cranked trailing arms in the back, extended a-arm, and longer brake lines.

I had OME and 1.25" spacers on mine for a while with 235s with stock suspension linkage. It rode OK on the highway. I'm not sure it would clear larger tires. I never tried.

Thanks, by riding OK what exactly do you mean? Mine tracks straight now, but there is about a 1'' in steering wheel play on center. I wasn't sure if that was due to the taller tires or suspension components. I guess the easiest way to test that would be having someone move the wheel back and forth a few inches while I look at the steering components to diagnose any bushing play.
With your spacer and OME set up, would extended brake lines and bump stops be all that is needed? If I went that route, I'd replace the shocks too. I was thinking of a more budget friendly Terrafirma big bore +2'' shock setup.
Is there a magic number of lift (measuring from the center of wheel hub to fender lip) where the suspension geometry must be fixed?

 

[robertf]

You have to change the links on the big lift to keep the bushings happy.

I think around 2.5" lift is where the steering goes to crap, but it varies truck to truck. My 95 with the spacers drove like my 97 without. Slightly vague steering. You said you have 2" OME springs. I've had old man emu on 3 D1s and saw maybe 1.25" of lift. I don't know if the springs or the advertising changed since then.

I've got my old 4.5 springs sitting in a pile that I'd consider selling if you are looking for used springs. You can read about them here

 

[fishEH]

If your current setup is pretty well dialed in, why would you want to more than double your lift?
Get some new OME springs and some shocks of your choice. Chuck some 1" spacers under the springs later if you need them. More lift creates more problems than it solves.

 

[MM3846]

Buy new, stiffer shocks.. I'd go with Fox. Then trim and bumpstop until you don't rub at full tuck. Lift alone doesn't allow you to stuff bigger tires.

 

[MC97D1]

I guess I don't need more lift since trimming and bump stops would ultimately solve rubbing issues. Would stiffer Fox shocks also raise it a little (1/2-3/4'') considering my current ones are so old and worn? If so, I may just do that and bump stops. I figure I only need an extra 2'' of bump stop with a 33" tire since they have a 2'' bigger radius than the stock 29'' tires. Is that correct? Please excuse my newbness.

 

[stu454]

Ben Little ran 33's on his D1. It's a good look and a useful size but a D1 on 33's requires money and careful thought.

Edit: here's a thread where he lists the mod's. It was a joke For Sale thread.

http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76912&referrerid=1863

Also, here's a copy of JSQ's post from the Expedition Exchange board about a likely perfect D1 set-up.

John and I were fantasizing about starting over from scratch on near new trucks and I have to say that if I were to do it all over again I wouldn't be choosing between high and low because the CT rack only comes one way.

John and Ho offered me a CT rack at a good price a few years back and I balked at trading out my SD highlander. The setup on my disco is functional and proven and I didn't want to reengineer it around a new rack and I didn't want to give up the 4Ks or squeeze them, but if I were starting from scratch...




All the disco1 love spawned by Scott Brady's new accquisition and others like it had John and I dreaming about the possibilities. To take everything we know now and start again so much wiser and with far better install skill. And in many cases, better taste...

For me it was something like this:

1999 Disco1 SD, Alpine White, Cloth seats with weirdo red and green triangle commercial airliner interior, no tint, no sunroofs.

Wheels and tires:
-Michelin XZL 7.5s on ANR 4636s powdercoated alpine white
-2 spares, one on the roof but at the rear (the thin 7.5 and tall CT rack sides practially make the roof mounted spare disappear)

Drivetrain:
-As factory as possible 300Tdi conversion with diesel short-shaft R380. No autobox, no booty fab, no "custom" where factory is possible. No extra boost, no big intercooler.
-Stainless steel cooler lines everywhere (one concession to custom)
-1.4 LT230 with ashcroft low-low range gearset and 3.54s at the diffs
-Detroit rear with GBR HD axles
-TT front with GBR HD CVs and halfshafts

Suspension:
-Same 3" lift as my current disco (764s, 763s, LTRs, RTE links, DC driveshafts, lengthened radius arms, EE shock mounts, EE retainers, blah blah blah)
-Redrilled swivel balls (and they're those sweet black teflon type ones because it's a '99)
-Hydraulic bumpstops on the rear axle

Brakes:
-D90 vented front rotor conversion with D90 calipers
-ABS disabled
-EE Stainless steel lines
-DBAs all around
-Genuine pads
-ATE SuperBlue Racing
-No brake shields

Interior:
-Heated front windshield
-genuine rubber mats everywhere
-genuine waterproof seat covers front and back
-Mantec Dog guard
-Engel 45 with no transit bag
-Garmin 276C dash sexy
-Yaesu 857 with full antenna forest
-cargo net in rear like my current disco
-same compliment of tools
-way less spares thanks to the three hundy
-keep the backseat in just for looks
-same recovery gear
-same camp gear
-same personal gear
-XM satellite radio, factory stereo
-Marc Olivares wannabe folding cook table mounted to rear door along with knife magnet
-10lb CO2
-Overhead LR NATO SLR mounts above front seats with DSA congo configuration metric FAL
-Center console filled 20 round FAL metric pattern .308 magazines, nothing else
-Sat phone
-Leica Trinovid field glasses
-Leica Digilux 3 camera
-Surefire M3
-Surefire 6P x2
-HK flare gun


Exterior:
-Disco2 headlights
-Sill blades all around
-"DISCOVERY" sticker on roof above windshield
-Mantec snorkel powdercoated alpine white
-Safety Devices CT style rain gutter clamp rack
-4 hella 500s on the rack and LR genuine work lamp
-GRP waffleboards in gray
-LR factory rear ladder with black grip tape on the rungs
-Starboard XL flooring
-CT mantec axe mount at rear of rack
-Yellow diesel wedcos x4
-blue water wedcos x4
-LR genuine parts shovel on rack above front passenger door
-Trek Oufitters front bumper remade from the old drawings to accomodate a husky10
-Whatever winchline sheki runs
-two hella 550s on the front bumper
-Two Dixon Bate tow jaws on the front bumper
-Trek Outfitters rear bumper remade from the old drawings
-Large Dixon Bate tow jaw on rear bumper
-NO wannabe yellow CT jewelry
-NO CT stickers
-Slickrock sliders
-Omani Flag decal on driver side front fender (uncut by snorkel trimming)
-"Discovery" Mountain decal on passenger side front fender

Underneath:
-Leo Hallak stainless steel frame sliders
-RW offset tie rod
-defender drop arm
-RW drop link
-RW pinion guards front and rear
-mantec diff guards.
-JATEs front and rear
-Hella rubber cheapie spotting lamps x4

Driver:
-Wilderness EMT
-Gunsite, Thunder Ranch, Frontsight or equivalent rifle training
-Complete 300tdi, R380 and LT230 rebuild with field toolset
-Bill Burke OTR annually
-ARES
-back racing bikes again
-International Four wheel drive Instructors accreditation
-Continuing education photography classes at Cal Arts
-California CCW
-Airforce E&E instruction
-Army Ranger advanced Nav course






Oh man, that would be a sweet set-up.

 

[MC97D1]

Ben Little ran 255/85R16's on his D1. It's a good look and a useful size but a D1 on 33's requires money and careful thought.

I'm running on a 20/80 money to careful thought ratio. As far as gearing, I nullified changing that with the 4.6. I like keeping the stronger 3.54 gears and just changing out the weak ass carriers. If I ever do go to a larger tire, I'll probably swap in 1.4 TC before doing a diff gear change. Suspension wise, it rides fine as is on the highway. It has just a little on center play but that could mostly be due to sidewall height.

 

[ERover82]

So much easier to run 235/85 with stock bumps, trim, and stuff them all you want. You retain your uptravel, tire choice, engine power, handling, and loads of cash. 0.5 inch more clearance is a terrible return for the cash and trouble spent.

 

[MC97D1]

So much easier to run 235/85 with stock bumps, trim, and stuff them all you want. You retain your uptravel, engine power, handling, and loads of cash. 0.5 inch more clearance is a terrible return for the cash and trouble spent.

It came with 235/85 and I hated it. Didn't like the look or the E load rating that all of them have. I switched to 245/75 standard load and knew right when I saw it that it wasn't gonna last. Now with 255/85, I think it's perfect.

1) Engine power- check (4.6)
2) Uptravel- New bump stops
3) Trimming- D2 fender flares
4) Handling- Haven't compared AutoX times, but I bet both would be infinite since it would be flipped on its side mid course with either tire.
5) Cash- $75 for flares, A hundy or so for bump stops, needs new shocks anyway so doesn't count.

I really didn't need to cut much off the rear fender. Just a little off the back well and it stuffs. It is at the limit for the rear door/sliders, but it just clears them. The front will need more trimming, but the flare kit should cover that.
Overall, it isn't a crazy tire setup for a mid level D1. It is probably at the threshold of too big. Now, if I still had the 4.0, that's different. The power now with 33s is comparable to a 4.0 with 29s- perfect.

 

[MM3846]

I guess I don't need more lift since trimming and bump stops would ultimately solve rubbing issues. Would stiffer Fox shocks also raise it a little (1/2-3/4'') considering my current ones are so old and worn? If so, I may just do that and bump stops. I figure I only need an extra 2'' of bump stop with a 33" tire since they have a 2'' bigger radius than the stock 29'' tires. Is that correct? Please excuse my newbness.

New shocks won't give you any lift, but you said everything seemed "worn out." It would help keep the tires out of the fenders prematurely running around dirt roads/on road.

 

[ERover82]

A D1 for fun with a 4.6 and 33s is a recipe for busted diffs and axles. Don't forget that cost and trouble. Reduced articulation from stiffer springs and taller bumps only makes it worse from increased wheel spin probability. Maybe 265/75 would look tough enough. Rovers have never needed huge tires to be capable.

 

[MC97D1]

New shocks won't give you any lift, but you said everything seemed "worn out." It would help keep the tires out of the fenders prematurely running around dirt roads/on road.

I didn't think so either, but I saw on another thread someone saying Fox shocks gave a little more lift. It sounds plausible since stiffer shocks are a bitch to put in demanding all your body weight. Figuring at minimum a stiffer shock setup would create about 200lbs more up force per axle it should be equivalent to removing 400lbs of weight off the suspension. However, I too have never heard of a shock lifting anything.

 

[MC97D1]

A D1 for fun with a 4.6 and 33s is a recipe for busted diffs and axles. Don't forget that cost and trouble. Reduced articulation from stiffer springs and taller bumps only makes it worse from increased wheel spin probability. Maybe 265/75 would look tough enough. Rovers have never needed huge tires to be capable.

I did strongly consider 265s, but ended up getting a good deal on these. The diffs are getting upgraded either way, and I'll eventually get upgraded halfshafts and CVs. It only has a trutrac rear as of now, so going easy off road should hopefully not break an axle. When I get back into the real world and making money, the plan is to put a detroit locker in rear with HD shafts, and take the truetrac, flip the gears and put it up front with HD CVs. I would have done that for either a 32 or 33 tire setup anyhow.

 

[robertf]

I didn't think so either, but I saw on another thread someone saying Fox shocks gave a little more lift. It sounds plausible since stiffer shocks are a bitch to put in demanding all your body weight. Figuring at minimum a stiffer shock setup would create about 200lbs more up force per axle it should be equivalent to removing 400lbs of weight off the suspension. However, I too have never heard of a shock lifting anything.

the gas charged shocks like fox and bilstien 7100 do lift the truck depending on the pressure you run at. The 200 psi out of the box was good for around 3/8" on mine.

 

[Buddy]

the gas charged shocks like fox and bilstien 7100 do lift the truck depending on the pressure you run at. The 200 psi out of the box was good for around 3/8" on mine.

X2 I got close to 1/2", although I think mine have settled in the last year.

 

[MC97D1]

Nice, well I guess my brain was right this time. I'll give it a snack.

 

[Beagle Bones]

Just curious, why would you pull the diffs to replace the "weak ass carriers" and not change the gears? Seems easier maybe cheaper (IDK) than re-using stock gears only to replace the T-case gear.

 

[bri]

Ben Little ran 33's on his D1. It's a good look and a useful size but a D1 on 33's requires money and careful thought.

Edit: here's a thread where he lists the mod's. It was a joke For Sale thread.

http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=76912&referrerid=1863

Also, here's a copy of JSQ's post from the Expedition Exchange board about a likely perfect D1 set-up.

I may respect JSQ opinion, but why? DT, TT and XZLs these days? You'll never see me with that crap. Sorry. I had XZL envy about 9 years ago, then drove a truck with them. Now, I believe they are impossible to get. Context is everything and I betcha that post is ancient.