Toyota third/axle converts check-in

[JSQ]

I'd appreciate it everyone who has swapped toyota third members with diff, r&P and toyota axles and CVs to post exactly what they swapped, how long it's been in and any breakages.

I'm not interested in hearing about entire axle housing swaps or salisbury/D60 rears, just toy centers in Rover housings.

I'm also not concerned with what tire you are running, where your hometown is, if you are left handed or what sort of jeep you are tougher than. If I really want to know all that circumstantial info, I'll ask.

Please DO tell me what gear ratio you are running and if it is a factory toyota gearset.

What I'm hoping for are just the basics.
A headcount of people who have done the swap with some basic info on duration and breakage.

My motiviation for asking is that I feel that a large chunk of the Toy swap info is anecdotal. There seems to be little first hand account and I don't feel like I'm getting the straight dope.

I'm not particularly interested in running this set up myself, but I get asked about it a lot and I hate responding with hearsay. The reality is I can't speak authoritatively until I run it myself or at least see it on the trail a few times, but nonetheless I'd like to be better informed than I am.

So let's hear it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[justinhaaga]

As of this weekend I will be sporting a welded toy 4 cyl 3rd with factory 4.10 R&P, 30 spline toy axles (made for rover axle housing rovertracks). All it requires is the spindles widen to fit the bigger axle and the pinion flange machined to fit the driveshaft, pop out the diff studs and weld on new studs (jig available from Keith at rovertracks).

I am searched long and hard for a v6 3rd but I cannot find much with factory 4.10's, they are all 4.56 or 4.88, where as 4 cyl 3rd are plentyful for cheap and factory 4.10's (good gear for a 35 i think). Some of the difference between a v6 and a 4cyl is:

1) v6 has larger pinion bearing
2) diff housing has a few more ribs to absorb more shock load
3) 4 cyl has a 7 3/4"ish ring gear where as v6 is 8"

If you compare the 4 cyl and the rover internals there it's easy to see how much larger the toy stuff really is.

As for the front.. let me share to you what I've gathered.

Diffs:
Can only use a FJ80 FRONT ONLY High pinion. The ringgear is 8.5". It must be high pinion because this is the only diff that will clear the rover rear track bar. No other toy diff will clear. also, a rear FJ80 diff will not work as it is bigger, 9.5" ring gear I believe.

Longfields:
There are 2 version offered right now:

27 spline toy longfields - break at 6500 ft lbs - people break them with 37's
30 spline toy longfields - break at 9500 ft lbs - Inner shaft is bigger and the start is smaller - none to small know breakage with 40+" tires

You need new hub flanges, your swivel balls need to be bored out a bit to fit the larger shaft and of course your diff flange will need to be machined and same work on the diff housing for the studs.

FJ80 Diff are harder to find because they have elockers in them. you can get then brand new with 4.10 from inchworm.com for around $1000, w/ the elocker and 3rd.

Right now I am still sporting the rover 24 spline longfileds (rated the same as the 27 toy) and yet to break them. My front is undergoing some slight modifications -- welded up front with manual lock out hubs, stay tuned.

so there you have it some info, take it or leave it.

oh, and I agree on toy info it is very misinformed. I don't know if there is anyone really wheeling on a rear toy rover conversion. For the front, well we know there is...but it is still not specific on what you really need to do it.

 

[ChicagoDon]

Justin, FJ80 fronts use 8" ring gears

 

[alex]

I've had the toy setup f/r for about two years.. ARBs, 30 splines, blah blah blah. Machined spindles, hubs drilled and tapped for 7/16 screws, pinion flanges drilled to rover bolt pattern. I broke a yukon 4.88 ring in the rear, but I think it was due to shitty setup more than anything else. Never broke anything in the front, and the new rear (same brand gears) has held up fine so far.

 

[D Chapman]

Jack,

You may also consider keeping your Rover 3rd and getting the covert from Keith that uses a new inner axle to fit the Rovertracks CV's. I think that kits runs 1400.00ish, but save you the time and cost of a new 3rd.

You would still need the CV's, axles, drive-flanges, and spindles.

When I did the cutting on James Galls truck, I thought the convert for the full Toyota set-up was pretty easy. It took about 4-hours start to complete with the housing on the work bench.

I think the parts James used were as follows:
FZJ-80 front, Hi-pinion 3rd, with 4.88 gears and e-locker
Longtracks 30-spline axle/CV kit
Drive flanges from Rovertracks (may or may not be made by JacMac)
Rovertracks supplied the machined spindles
New oillite bushings for spindles
Related bolts to act as studs in the housing.
E-locker wiring harness
Sewer cap diff guard

Basically, Rovertracks supplies you with a "kit" with the parts he offers, as well as a templete to drill the holes nessassary to fit the Toyota diff. I think he even supplies the bolts for the diff and the longer one to fit the e-locker motor with the correct taps and drill-bits.

Here is a short write-up I did on Phillyrovers just after the diff fitment:

"The sewer cap is defiantly bomb proof! The stock diff pan is super tin. We cut through it with a grinding disk in about 3-minutes. The new sewer cap would eat about 5 disks', I'm sure. Thing is no less than 1/4" thick....

Popping out the old bolts for the diff was no big deal, and took 30 seconds. Re-drilling the new holes was made easy by the template Keith provided, but of course, it takes time to drill 10 holes in 1/4" steel.

The circumference of the yota diff is a shade smaller. Or, at least the bolt pattern is. On 4 of the holes, we had to build up the surface area with the welder, before we drilled.

We also had to trim the diff so the e-locker would fit. Notice the notch cut in one side if the diff hole. Light grinding was also needed to the opposite side of the diff, so the bearing caps would clear.

Two of the holes, on each side of the notch, are drilled and tapped. These are actually two bolts that come in from the out side. Not only do the hold the diff in, they also hold the e-locker motor on.

Getting the new studs welded in was trickey. Somehow, we got it right the first time. As you can imagine, if one stud is just slightly off center, or cocked several thousands of an inch either way, the diff would not fit. Also, if any of the holes were not drilled straight, we could have run into problems. Just shows our skillz!

I guess the final test will be to see if the axles fit. If the diff is in there, and cocked one way or the other, the axles would not go in....That would be a bitch."

I guess the most time consuming ordeal is totally stripping the axle housing of everything. When grinding, metal dust goes everywhere, so you don't want any of the bearings in there, etc..... Then you have to wash it in hot soapy water, followed by paint and an oil bath to keep from rusting once done. As cheap as the housing are these days, I would just buy one and rebuild it. Would save 2-days of down time, easy.

You can also look on Pirate4x4 for used Diffs to save major dollars. Just be sure it's a hi-pinion e-locker. The low-pinion diffs are stronger, but difficult to fit into the rover unless you move your tie rod up front. Even then you have to mess with the pinion angles, blah blah blah. Inchworm I think is making enemys from what I've heard due to their warrenty policy - it's basically shit. James Gall had issues with them when his e-locker busted, but it may not have been their fault and I do think it was outside of their 1-year period. But, others here in my area have given up on them do to shitty service. So, buy buying used, what could *really* be worm out, the bearings?

......even still, add it all up, then price a a danatrack drop-in.

Here are the only pics I can find.

 

[DiscoDino]

The Rovota set-up is a great upgrade. However, if someone tells you they are unbreakable they are a wee bit too naive as everything breaks...for us Rovers, its the BEST upgrade (on the Rover axles albeit for Salisbury & 101).

Parts as far as I remember from mine 3.5years ago (and going strong under 37s/42s):

Front 8" hi pinion (off an FJ80 here in the US)
Yukon 4.88 R&P
ARB (RD 23)
30 spline axles (got mine from Jac Mac in Australia before Keith got around his, but Keith's are the best option there today)
27 spline longfields (again, Keith got the 30s )
Need to bore out the spindles and slap in some brass bushings (stock Toy parts)

Rear 8" lw pinion V6 (off a 4 Runner V6 here in the US)
Yukon 4.88 R&P
ARB (RD 23)
30 spline axles (got mine from Jac Mac in Australia before Keith got around his, but Keith's are the best option there today)
Need to also bore outthe spindles

Do the sewer cap upgrade and grade 8 bolts and call it quits!

I've run serious trails in both 37" full bodied and 42" truggy form with no issues (except for a cheapo 27 spline CV while waiting for the Longs). Search "DiscoDino" on google video for a nice 5 minute clip (nothing to hardcore though)

On 37s, the 4.88s are ideal, on the 42s I decided to put a ZF and an underdrive for more gearing options...

Cheers

 

[mightymg]

96 d1 35s, fj80 e locker third in the front with the covert squirlly 30 spline front... toy v-6 rear conversion with a lock rite and rovertracks 30 pline axles... both sewer capped, the front I just finished and the rear has been on for 6 moths. ALL IS BOMB PROOF!! the specs on the longfield 30 spline cvs are 9500 ft lbs before breakage, that d-60 strength....

ohh and p.s the last picture shows the difference in a rover 410 pinion and a huge stock toyota 4 10 pinion..

 

[justinhaaga]

Justin, FJ80 fronts use 8" ring gears

yes thanks, and also rears are 8.875". was closing out my day so didn't have time to doublecheck the specs.

 

[lwg]

I'm going on 2 1/2 years on my swap. I think I was the first RRC in NA to do it. I am running the 30-spline axles, CV's (Duh) and a 4.88 R&P with ARB. All Toy. No problems whatsoever and I run trails like this all the time.

 

[benlittle]

Wow Larry, your Rangie is sexy.

 

[rover4x4]

that pinion gear comparison speaks for itself.

 

[Funrover]

How do the 4.88's do on the freeway?

 

[DiscoDino]

4.88s with 35s-37s is a good ratio with teh stock 1.222 H ratio...

 

[derrickalda]

what are some thoughts about the strength of the high pinion reverse cut front 3rd. weak in reverse? is it possible to rework the steering so you don't have to have a high pinion front 3rd?

 

[KyleT]

what are some thoughts about the strength of the high pinion reverse cut front 3rd. weak in reverse? is it possible to rework the steering so you don't have to have a high pinion front 3rd?

IIRC low pinion front is weak in forward... hp is stronger and better clearance.

someone correct me if my logic is flawed.

 

[derrickalda]

IIRC low pinion front is weak in forward... hp is stronger and better clearance.

someone correct me if my logic is flawed.

i've always heard and read just the opposite. i haven't physically witnessed one break though. keith told me if you switch to the aftermarket gears in the 80 3rd it will be a stronger in reverse, but still not bulletproof. he's only seen one break going forward, but the story he told me would probably break most things.

 

[RoverRideAlong]

Alright I know this is a very old thread but a very beneficial one to many. The ony question I have for those out there running the toy conversions is how much the conversion has cost you to install.

 

[DiscoDino]

My costs won't reflect US labour charges (paid 200$ for everything), but...assuming that you have the thirds assembled and all parts, you need to factor for:

1. 4 x spindle borings
2. 2 x front swivle housing boring
3. 2 x Install brass bushings
4. 2 x redrill third member 10 bolt patterns

If I recall correctly, those are the "abnormal" items to pay for...ask Keith at Rovertracks how much it'll cost normally...

 

[robertf]

how many of those that have converted are daily drivers?

 

[DiscoDino]

Mine was until recently, but I'm swapping my Rovota axles to my daily driver Disco in May as I'm upgrading axles on the "big" Disco...shouldn't be a concern...if you are running the Rovota axles, you are usually running 35s, and probably in mud pattern...any concerns would be drowned out..