W '04
- Thread starter Steve Rupp
- Start date
I think Zell should be in Iraq, no one would go near that guy... very scary to watch old people lose it mentally... I just cannot vote for the Saudis-- oops, I mean Bush. To me Kerry is the lesser of two evils. I wish McCain was a choice, I would vote twice.
My goodness, do your homework before talking.
I have not heard one solid commentary for why someone SHOULD vote for Kerry, and SHOULD NOT vote for Bush. It's all conspiracy theory about the Saudi connection and his AWOL status - both made up by Michael Moore. Yes, made up. Richard Clark took credit for letting the Saudi's leave after 9/11 (and after the 3 day no-fly order on all aircraft).
For one, Zell is supporting Bush, not chanigng partys like good'ole Jim Jeffords. Imagine, the idea that you vote someone into office and expect them to represent your party for the whole of his term! I didn't hear you talking about Jim like he was a senile old fart simply because he broke party lines!
Seriously! Tell me why I should vote for Kerry!! I actually want to know. Is it that you really believe he will abolish no-child-left-behind? What about taxes - raise or lower - he has not said? What about Iraq? He would be taking over while there are still 250k troops in there, is he just going to instantly pull out like Clinton did in Somalia so we can have things happen in our own country like they did in Russia this week? Do you even understand that the President really has only one tool directly at his disposal that has been proven to change the economy - TAXES - and the bills and laws that go with them.
What about Kerry's Vietnam record? Is it really just "yesterday's news?" Does it, or does it not speak to the type of person he is - you do realize that if his record in Vietnam is clean, if he really, really deserves those medals, he should be recocnized as Americas' greatest hero - no man has ever rightly earned so much in so little time, not Shutgart, not Gordon, not Cunningham, not Gen. Geo. Washington himself! And if you don't know who those men are, you had better learn a little about your nations real heros before you decide to put a fake like John Kerry into office. I'm sorry, but I know too many men who have given too much to this country to let his record in Vietnam be just a negative campain issue - it's an issue of what you want in office, and who you want to represent the U.S.
I have not heard one solid commentary for why someone SHOULD vote for Kerry, and SHOULD NOT vote for Bush. It's all conspiracy theory about the Saudi connection and his AWOL status - both made up by Michael Moore. Yes, made up. Richard Clark took credit for letting the Saudi's leave after 9/11 (and after the 3 day no-fly order on all aircraft).
For one, Zell is supporting Bush, not chanigng partys like good'ole Jim Jeffords. Imagine, the idea that you vote someone into office and expect them to represent your party for the whole of his term! I didn't hear you talking about Jim like he was a senile old fart simply because he broke party lines!
Seriously! Tell me why I should vote for Kerry!! I actually want to know. Is it that you really believe he will abolish no-child-left-behind? What about taxes - raise or lower - he has not said? What about Iraq? He would be taking over while there are still 250k troops in there, is he just going to instantly pull out like Clinton did in Somalia so we can have things happen in our own country like they did in Russia this week? Do you even understand that the President really has only one tool directly at his disposal that has been proven to change the economy - TAXES - and the bills and laws that go with them.
What about Kerry's Vietnam record? Is it really just "yesterday's news?" Does it, or does it not speak to the type of person he is - you do realize that if his record in Vietnam is clean, if he really, really deserves those medals, he should be recocnized as Americas' greatest hero - no man has ever rightly earned so much in so little time, not Shutgart, not Gordon, not Cunningham, not Gen. Geo. Washington himself! And if you don't know who those men are, you had better learn a little about your nations real heros before you decide to put a fake like John Kerry into office. I'm sorry, but I know too many men who have given too much to this country to let his record in Vietnam be just a negative campain issue - it's an issue of what you want in office, and who you want to represent the U.S.
I think many liberals still believe moore. i guess they missed the fact that he admitted that his move was political satire and not a documentary. that confession got very little air time
I usually stay out of these "discussions" because people really do not want to hear why they should vote for what is obviously, their opposition. Rather they want to convince you of their ways... through "discussion". If they did they really would not be presenting their own version of the opposing propaganda.
Many people believe propaganda that might be based on something, but far from true. I believe very little of the negative campaign BS, they purposfully and blatantly exaggerate to make a point. The result is a lot of FUD that results in people staying with what they are comfortable with, listening only to the thier side and whatever additional negative campaigning is going on with "their" candidate. Its a catch 22 and people that bite it take the hook entirely. That is why so many politicians are so successfull with it and why I tend to ignore it and try to figure out their plan through their own publications.
To me the real questions are Why should I vote for Kerry? and Why should I vote for Bush? Rather than what most people think of these days is why should I not vote for Bush and why should I not vote for Kerry.
Why should I vote for W and please do not use Kerry's name in your response.
Why should I vote for Kerry and please do not use Bush's name in your response.
Brian
Many people believe propaganda that might be based on something, but far from true. I believe very little of the negative campaign BS, they purposfully and blatantly exaggerate to make a point. The result is a lot of FUD that results in people staying with what they are comfortable with, listening only to the thier side and whatever additional negative campaigning is going on with "their" candidate. Its a catch 22 and people that bite it take the hook entirely. That is why so many politicians are so successfull with it and why I tend to ignore it and try to figure out their plan through their own publications.
To me the real questions are Why should I vote for Kerry? and Why should I vote for Bush? Rather than what most people think of these days is why should I not vote for Bush and why should I not vote for Kerry.
Why should I vote for W and please do not use Kerry's name in your response.
Why should I vote for Kerry and please do not use Bush's name in your response.
Brian
Bri, this is why I voted for W and will again in November: He signed a bill that lowered my taxes.
That's a simple answer!
That's a simple answer!
Personally I can't stand either of them.
JMHO but I really can't vote for Bush because the man has a hard time stringing a legible sentence together. Really not the person I'd like representing the free world.
Kerry - don't think much of him either.
Where do I sign up to vote for McCain ?
Again JMHO
Pretty sure GW will get back in this time so I may even sit this one out. Civic duty not withstanding - if there is no one to vote for - what do you do with your vote ?
JMHO but I really can't vote for Bush because the man has a hard time stringing a legible sentence together. Really not the person I'd like representing the free world.
Kerry - don't think much of him either.
Where do I sign up to vote for McCain ?
Again JMHO
Pretty sure GW will get back in this time so I may even sit this one out. Civic duty not withstanding - if there is no one to vote for - what do you do with your vote ?
Micheal Moore knows humor and satire are more effective at propaganda than a documentary ever could be (Goebbles would agree). It allows him more leverage in making his points (read unsupportable and untrue allegations) than a straight documentary ever could. He is now a very wealthy and powerful film maker through the sales of his political propaganda...
Here are some interesting comments on F911:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
Here are some interesting comments on F911:
http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm
C
cmondieyoung
Guest
GregH said:
Haha... you conservatives cry about F 9/11 being "propaganda", then link to some dogmatic arch-republican website and claim it as a valid rebuttal.
"Fahrenhype 9/11"? Give me a break.
cmondieyoung said:Haha... you conservatives cry about F 9/11 being "propaganda", then link to some dogmatic arch-republican website and claim it as a valid rebuttal.
"Fahrenhype 9/11"? Give me a break.
Propaganda
n. information that is spread for the purpose of promoting some cause.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=propaganda
Documentary
adj. 2. presenting facts objectively WITHOUT editorializing or inserting fictional matter, as in a book or film. (emphasis-mine)
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=documentary
I suppose you could argue that F911 is an "art" film if you consider propaganda an "art". Seriously, whatever you believe is the political persuasion of Dave Kopel, his points are valid regarding this film. After having seen most of Mr. Moore's films, his methods are to provide only that information that promotes his particular political viewpoint. In doing so, he has promoted himself. And yes, he claims "political satire" but presents his commentary in a documentary format.
And good people die every day to allow him to do so...
My 2 cents-
C
cmondieyoung
Guest
GregH said:
Yeah, I remember that Bush speech... Something about Hussein's intent to censor Hollywood.
cmondieyoung said:Yeah, I remember that Bush speech... Something about Hussein's intent to censor Hollywood.
LOL-
Now THAT sounds like a "Mooreism".
Actually I'm not a big fan of Bush. It's just that the alternative is too awful.
Hmmm. How about an amendment to allow a Schwarzenegger write-in?
Im voting for bush because i feel safer knowing that he will do whatever neccesary to make sure some terrorist asshole doesnt attack the US again. the tax break is great, but not my main concern.
GregH said:Actually I'm not a big fan of Bush. It's just that the alternative is too awful.
Hmmm. How about an amendment to allow a Schwarzenegger write-in?
ditto, and ditto.
