W '04
- Thread starter Steve Rupp
- Start date
RBBailey said:
By the way, do you know that FDR, together with Winston Churchill, have spared no expense to support Stalin, starting as early as in 1930? That must have been the biggest political blunder of all times.
If you're ever interested, find the book by Viktor Suvorov called "The Icebreaker." It is long since out of print, and fetches between $250 and $300 on amazon.com. Quite an eye-opener...
bri said:
Huh? That's the whole point of the calculators. You enter your gross income, deductions, interest income, dividend income, etc. into the calculator and it will calculate for you how much money you saved in federal taxes. Did you even go to the link? Like I said, get out your tax return from last year and find out how much you saved in taxes.
Mike_Rupp said:
Then subtract all the things that you had to pay more for...like childcare and such...and don't forget all the responsibilities that got shifted down to the state and local level. We've got a nice half cent sales tax to make up the lapse. Your tax-cut didn't just drop out of thin air.
Calculate that
Utahpuppy, or whatever your name is, in Illinois I haven't seen any sales tax increase or state tax increase. The answer to your question is zero. Let's say for sake of argument that I did actually get an increase of $.005 in sales tax and I spend $2000 per month. Wow! that's like $120 per year. Ok, so my net tax gain is only $3730.
Your argument is kind of like apples and oranges, though. I didn't elect a President to control taxes at the state and local level; that's what the state and local politicians are for. Even our liberal democrat Governor in Illinois hasn't tried to raise state taxes yet.
I see that you're from Florida. The last time I checked Florida had no state income tax. What are you complaining about? Why don't you move up to Massachussettes where you can be closer to Kerry? You will be paying your fair share up there assuming that you have income.
Your argument is kind of like apples and oranges, though. I didn't elect a President to control taxes at the state and local level; that's what the state and local politicians are for. Even our liberal democrat Governor in Illinois hasn't tried to raise state taxes yet.
I see that you're from Florida. The last time I checked Florida had no state income tax. What are you complaining about? Why don't you move up to Massachussettes where you can be closer to Kerry? You will be paying your fair share up there assuming that you have income.
I plugged some numbers into the calculators and it presented some savings, but since things have not been identical from year to year, it is difficult for me to varify this savings. However I have no reason not to believe the caclulators are close. I think the only one that affects me is the lowering the individual tax rates since I am DINK and do not get the benefit of other breaks.
We now have one reason mentioned that people vote Bush (all others are why not to vote Kerry). This had something to do with Bush getting my vote last time. Bush has lowered taxes and has a plan to do so until 2011. Can we continue to spend on things like national security and the war on terrorism while lowering taxes? I wonder if we can really do this without running up a deficit like we did in the past.
Nonetheless more money in peoples pockets will help get votes, but at the price of what? That is an important question for each of the candidates to address.
Brian
We now have one reason mentioned that people vote Bush (all others are why not to vote Kerry). This had something to do with Bush getting my vote last time. Bush has lowered taxes and has a plan to do so until 2011. Can we continue to spend on things like national security and the war on terrorism while lowering taxes? I wonder if we can really do this without running up a deficit like we did in the past.
Nonetheless more money in peoples pockets will help get votes, but at the price of what? That is an important question for each of the candidates to address.
Brian
No local increases huh...So then you guys are the ones responsible for the soaring national debt. I was wondering where all that money was going.
No, Florida has no Income tax...nice folks come here and spend boat-loads of money so we tax the snot out of that. But Florida has a ton of problems...failing schools, a faltering economy, and quite a bit of poverty...poverty you don't see in statistical averages because quite a few people have money too!
Here's a real-time scenario for you...After 9/11 federal dollars for Fire/Law Enforcement went thru the roof, while federal support for Community (Development and Services) dropped. Not directly proportional mind you...CD/CS type funds were hit with the double whammy of tax cut influenced reductions as well as redistributed funds. So now here we are. Frances just kicked the shit out of Florida (right on the heels of Bonnie and Charley), FEMA is taxed to the hilt, CD/CS will struggle to take care of those folks who now really need it, and where is the dough?
So, would I have asked for more money for the Cops and Hosers after 9/11? You bet! Those cats do damn good work that allows me to sleep well at night. But I would have paid more in taxes to know that they got their dough, and the old retired dude with no house got some help.
Your 3500 bucks would have done wonders to help. Sleep Tight.
Note that your post starts with a personal attack against me...and you don't even know me...how very "Hannity" of you.
---yeah I edited this up...I'm not going to get sucked into questioning the policies of the City. We all muddle thru what Washington has created for us, an we make the best of it...
No, Florida has no Income tax...nice folks come here and spend boat-loads of money so we tax the snot out of that. But Florida has a ton of problems...failing schools, a faltering economy, and quite a bit of poverty...poverty you don't see in statistical averages because quite a few people have money too!
Here's a real-time scenario for you...After 9/11 federal dollars for Fire/Law Enforcement went thru the roof, while federal support for Community (Development and Services) dropped. Not directly proportional mind you...CD/CS type funds were hit with the double whammy of tax cut influenced reductions as well as redistributed funds. So now here we are. Frances just kicked the shit out of Florida (right on the heels of Bonnie and Charley), FEMA is taxed to the hilt, CD/CS will struggle to take care of those folks who now really need it, and where is the dough?
So, would I have asked for more money for the Cops and Hosers after 9/11? You bet! Those cats do damn good work that allows me to sleep well at night. But I would have paid more in taxes to know that they got their dough, and the old retired dude with no house got some help.
Your 3500 bucks would have done wonders to help. Sleep Tight.
Note that your post starts with a personal attack against me...and you don't even know me...how very "Hannity" of you.
---yeah I edited this up...I'm not going to get sucked into questioning the policies of the City. We all muddle thru what Washington has created for us, an we make the best of it...
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Of course propoganda is art.
the artist/agitator to many represents the pennultimate melding of motivation and form. While i might not say that Moore can stand shoulder to shoulder with ROSTA in terms of talent or effort he can be judged as such.
Mayakovsky, Malevich, Lissitzky, Rodchenko and Eisenstein. I knowthem to be among the greatest artitst in human history.
Not to mention Americans like Barbara Kruger and Lichtenstein.
I believe poster and film to be two of the highest art forms. If done well they can be more powerful and consumable than anything else.
I won't offer an opinion on the political debate.
the artist/agitator to many represents the pennultimate melding of motivation and form. While i might not say that Moore can stand shoulder to shoulder with ROSTA in terms of talent or effort he can be judged as such.
Mayakovsky, Malevich, Lissitzky, Rodchenko and Eisenstein. I knowthem to be among the greatest artitst in human history.
Not to mention Americans like Barbara Kruger and Lichtenstein.
I believe poster and film to be two of the highest art forms. If done well they can be more powerful and consumable than anything else.
I won't offer an opinion on the political debate.
Mike,
My wife and I did the Turbo Tax thing this year as well. Our total savings as compared to before the Bush plan was around $4k. Did I save that $4k? Hell no! It made it's way back into the economy just like Bush said it would.
Someone here mentioned McCain. Now he is one politician I have respect for:
#1 He actually served.
#2 After serving (to include time in the Hanoi Hilton) he came back to the states and continued to serve. He did not throw his medals at the White House, he did not turn on his fellow soldiers.
I remember back when I was in the Corps. When the Republicans were in the White House, times were good. We had enough people, gear, gas, and ammo to make shit happen. But when the Dems took over, we had to downsize, programs got cancelled, and in 1994 I was forced out of the Corps due to this downsizing. Now that I am employed by a large defense contractor, my income to support my family requires a stable administration that will not waffle or cancel decisions made in the past. So whenever a Republican comes up to run, I generally go in that direction.
Disclaimer: The statement above is not intended to flame anyone, but rather just to participate in this thread.
My wife and I did the Turbo Tax thing this year as well. Our total savings as compared to before the Bush plan was around $4k. Did I save that $4k? Hell no! It made it's way back into the economy just like Bush said it would.
Someone here mentioned McCain. Now he is one politician I have respect for:
#1 He actually served.
#2 After serving (to include time in the Hanoi Hilton) he came back to the states and continued to serve. He did not throw his medals at the White House, he did not turn on his fellow soldiers.
I remember back when I was in the Corps. When the Republicans were in the White House, times were good. We had enough people, gear, gas, and ammo to make shit happen. But when the Dems took over, we had to downsize, programs got cancelled, and in 1994 I was forced out of the Corps due to this downsizing. Now that I am employed by a large defense contractor, my income to support my family requires a stable administration that will not waffle or cancel decisions made in the past. So whenever a Republican comes up to run, I generally go in that direction.
Disclaimer: The statement above is not intended to flame anyone, but rather just to participate in this thread.
Excuse me stewardess, I speak jive.
ROTFL... The "Airplane" is one of the most favorite movies in our house, and we just happened to watch the Sequel (#1) last Monday. On Tuesday, we flew to Chicago, and when I was checking out the rental Blazer at Alamo, the dude at the counter said "Sheeeeeet" in his cell phone. My kids just doubled up after hearing this. Took us full 10 minutes to get over it!
ROTFL... The "Airplane" is one of the most favorite movies in our house, and we just happened to watch the Sequel (#1) last Monday. On Tuesday, we flew to Chicago, and when I was checking out the rental Blazer at Alamo, the dude at the counter said "Sheeeeeet" in his cell phone. My kids just doubled up after hearing this. Took us full 10 minutes to get over it!
Here are just a few reasons I will be voting for Bush.
Contrary to popular belief, after 911 millions of $ were pumped into my fire deprtment for homeland defense. This is somthing my local fire union does not want you to here because they want you to believe Bush is trying to take money from local police and fire departments. As a result I as a fireman am much better trained and equiped for future terrorist actions, because we will be hit agian no matter who is in office.
Under Bush more roads were reopened in California that were previously closed under the Clinton admin. Now I have more to explore closer to home.
I did recieve a significant tax refund under Bush.
I respect Bush for his faith in God. I am not saying Kerry does not have faith in God.
I agree with Bush's stance on Stem Cell research and abortion.
I believe Bush would act faster and more aggresively when attacke again than Kerry would.
These are just a few reasons I will be supporting Bush in November. I respect the opinion off anyone who think otherwise.
Please excuse my spelling errors.
Contrary to popular belief, after 911 millions of $ were pumped into my fire deprtment for homeland defense. This is somthing my local fire union does not want you to here because they want you to believe Bush is trying to take money from local police and fire departments. As a result I as a fireman am much better trained and equiped for future terrorist actions, because we will be hit agian no matter who is in office.
Under Bush more roads were reopened in California that were previously closed under the Clinton admin. Now I have more to explore closer to home.
I did recieve a significant tax refund under Bush.
I respect Bush for his faith in God. I am not saying Kerry does not have faith in God.
I agree with Bush's stance on Stem Cell research and abortion.
I believe Bush would act faster and more aggresively when attacke again than Kerry would.
These are just a few reasons I will be supporting Bush in November. I respect the opinion off anyone who think otherwise.
Please excuse my spelling errors.
Nice. Decent reasons for making a choice. If you use basic criteria like this you will likely head you one way or another pretty quickly. IMHO these are better decision makers than basing your decision on something like Michael Moore or Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.
Brian
Brian
C
cmondieyoung
Guest
As far as those tax cuts you guys are raving about go... that's just chicken feed compared to what the guys who make real money get.
My father makes quite a decent salary, and yes, Bush's tax reforms line his pockets considerably. However, he's a staunch Democrat and has the foresight enough to realize that this money comes from social services many Americans depend on.
Look at the public schools in most states. The tax windfall he gets because of Bush allows him to send his daughter to private school in Virginia, because most public schools in Virginia are terrible. Unfortunately most Virginians have no choice, like most Americans. Florida is a good example as well... The big high schools in Miami-Dade have upwards of 8,000 students. They don't have the capital to open neighborhood high schools, so the districts must consolidate into trailer-classroom magnet schools. Pretty shitty school environment.
Sure, vote for Bush and you might squeeze out a couple extra bucks. But it's nothing compared to what the big earners, who can afford to pay for good education, health care, and don't have to worry about social security, are getting.
In the end you're just getting bribed into starving your own community.
My father makes quite a decent salary, and yes, Bush's tax reforms line his pockets considerably. However, he's a staunch Democrat and has the foresight enough to realize that this money comes from social services many Americans depend on.
Look at the public schools in most states. The tax windfall he gets because of Bush allows him to send his daughter to private school in Virginia, because most public schools in Virginia are terrible. Unfortunately most Virginians have no choice, like most Americans. Florida is a good example as well... The big high schools in Miami-Dade have upwards of 8,000 students. They don't have the capital to open neighborhood high schools, so the districts must consolidate into trailer-classroom magnet schools. Pretty shitty school environment.
Sure, vote for Bush and you might squeeze out a couple extra bucks. But it's nothing compared to what the big earners, who can afford to pay for good education, health care, and don't have to worry about social security, are getting.
In the end you're just getting bribed into starving your own community.
If I really wanted to make more money I would vote for Kerry and pray he wins. He is very union friendly and my local is backing him all the way. I am voting my heart and not my pocket book. My kids don't need the most expensive shoes and we can eat out less. Whatever it takes to keep my rover running .
."Sure, vote for Bush and you might squeeze out a couple extra bucks. But it's nothing compared to what the big earners, who can afford to pay for good education, health care, and don't have to worry about social security, are getting."
Just because one can afford to pay for a good education, heath care and don't worry about social security does not mean that someone is a big earner at all. Sure I have gone to private school since 5th grade and went to a jesuit high school and now in a jesuit university does not mean that someone is a big earner. Sure we can pay for our heath care, it is through the military since both my parents are 20 or so year vets and it seems that the insurence has gotten so much better. Example, we pay $36 a year for one of my medications that costs $20,000 a year, when many won't pay for my medicine. That is pretty damn good heath care. And wow my dad does not have a job and my mom works at a public high school. So I guess we are big earners since my mother is the only one who works in our family and makes soooo much money at a high school...
Just because one can afford to pay for a good education, heath care and don't worry about social security does not mean that someone is a big earner at all. Sure I have gone to private school since 5th grade and went to a jesuit high school and now in a jesuit university does not mean that someone is a big earner. Sure we can pay for our heath care, it is through the military since both my parents are 20 or so year vets and it seems that the insurence has gotten so much better. Example, we pay $36 a year for one of my medications that costs $20,000 a year, when many won't pay for my medicine. That is pretty damn good heath care. And wow my dad does not have a job and my mom works at a public high school. So I guess we are big earners since my mother is the only one who works in our family and makes soooo much money at a high school...
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cmondieyoung
Guest
cmondieyoung said:
Oh man...
IMHO, you could throw all the money in the world at public education and it would not solve the primary reasons for the probs. I also don't think you can legislate/mandate quality education (read Bush's "No child left behind").
My two daughters attend a private parochial school (not for a superior education but because I choose to give them a Christian one). BION it costs a fraction per student of what the local school district spends overall per student. Surprisingly, their school has the highest student test scores of any school in the area.
Quality education requires talented, caring, concerned teachers and supporting, caring parents that promote and motivate learning as an aspiration in itself. Many of the public schools in my area have new, beautiful campuses/schoolrooms/gyms, more computers per student, etc. yet lag academically.
My 2 cents-
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cmondieyoung
Guest
All it takes is a quick glance at the US News & World Report studies on high school test scores to determine that by and large the best performing public schools are those in predominantly white middle to upper class communities---communities that can afford to pay higher taxes required to attract dynamic teaching faculty, and have the socio-economic demographic common to high performing students.
Cortez, Colorado in Montezuma County has a beautiful new multi-million dollar high school and recreational facility, yet they aren't even in the top 500 public schools in the nation. Why? Because state subsidies go to poorer districts whose citizens can't afford (or don't WANT to afford) taxes to support their public schools.
Sure, there are exceptions, but by and large the counties (and states) that have sustained Republican leadership have poor public schools. Would YOU send your children to a public school in rural Mississippi over a public school in suburban New York? Scarsdale, NY (the area where I grew up) consistently has one of the best high schools in the nation. They also have THE HIGHEST paid public school teachers in the nation (when I was in 8th grade, the starting salary for a music teacher was $65,000). They also have high taxes to support this...
My family recently moved to Charlottesville, VA.. not a poor area by any means. However, Republican Gov. John Warner continues to cut funding to UVA (where my father is a professor) and the surrounding public schools. My sister attends a private school there because the public schools just plain aren't up to snuff (standardized test scores, AP courses offered, etc etc). Many middle-upper class families are forced to do this if they want their child to do well.
It's an issue that is getting glossed over with this Iraq nonsense. Americans continue their path to general ignorance, unfortunately. We're more worried about eliminating bilingual education for Chicano/Latino students then whether or not our children even know what the capitol of Mexico is.
Cortez, Colorado in Montezuma County has a beautiful new multi-million dollar high school and recreational facility, yet they aren't even in the top 500 public schools in the nation. Why? Because state subsidies go to poorer districts whose citizens can't afford (or don't WANT to afford) taxes to support their public schools.
Sure, there are exceptions, but by and large the counties (and states) that have sustained Republican leadership have poor public schools. Would YOU send your children to a public school in rural Mississippi over a public school in suburban New York? Scarsdale, NY (the area where I grew up) consistently has one of the best high schools in the nation. They also have THE HIGHEST paid public school teachers in the nation (when I was in 8th grade, the starting salary for a music teacher was $65,000). They also have high taxes to support this...
My family recently moved to Charlottesville, VA.. not a poor area by any means. However, Republican Gov. John Warner continues to cut funding to UVA (where my father is a professor) and the surrounding public schools. My sister attends a private school there because the public schools just plain aren't up to snuff (standardized test scores, AP courses offered, etc etc). Many middle-upper class families are forced to do this if they want their child to do well.
It's an issue that is getting glossed over with this Iraq nonsense. Americans continue their path to general ignorance, unfortunately. We're more worried about eliminating bilingual education for Chicano/Latino students then whether or not our children even know what the capitol of Mexico is.
James Reed, I should have looked closer to see that you actually posted your name. I lumped you in with comeondieyoung as someone that posts and is afraid to use his/her real name. I apologize.
Now, comeongetalife, I have a two-part question for you: How old are you and do you sustain your existence here on earth? (i.e. mom & dad aren't flipping the bill) Since your profile says your are a student I will assume 20ish and someone else is paying for your expenses. Once your situation changes and you're self-sufficient I would like to see your views on politics. Wait until your are out there working yourself to death to get ahead and some politician says that you aren't paying your fair share and need to pay more.
Let's examine this statement: "My father makes quite a decent salary, and yes, Bush's tax reforms line his pockets considerably." Are you implying that the Government is giving money to your father? This is twisted logic. Your father generated this wealth and is being forced by law to give the Government less of that wealth than before.
Now, comeongetalife, I have a two-part question for you: How old are you and do you sustain your existence here on earth? (i.e. mom & dad aren't flipping the bill) Since your profile says your are a student I will assume 20ish and someone else is paying for your expenses. Once your situation changes and you're self-sufficient I would like to see your views on politics. Wait until your are out there working yourself to death to get ahead and some politician says that you aren't paying your fair share and need to pay more.
Let's examine this statement: "My father makes quite a decent salary, and yes, Bush's tax reforms line his pockets considerably." Are you implying that the Government is giving money to your father? This is twisted logic. Your father generated this wealth and is being forced by law to give the Government less of that wealth than before.