What is the meaning of "Global" anyway?

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gil stevens

Guest
of course the truth is being covered up. . what would happen to society if we had all of these weather anamolies and no justification for them? the human ego needs to be massaged, so by slamming human caused global warming down our throats they are acheiving two things.. first, they make us feel like we are in control of a system that is obviously way bigger then humanity itself, and secondly, they are stemming the tide of doomsayers and religious zealots who would otherwise be screaming of end of days.. the human caused story allows the powers that be to keep the populace under control while they themselves prepare for the inevitable. this is a repeat cycle, and its repeated many times over.. but yet we are the first to have exhaust, and cfc etc.. so this time it must be our fault. hogwash
 

Jupiter Rover

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2006
1,690
0
South Florida
humans are causing chemicals, and wastes to affect the climate and atmosphere and earth it self. . so humans pretty much cause Alot of stuff going on in the world. it is not hog wash. although the earth is Aging.. and slowly Dying, so to speak. we are just speeding up the process. i agree with you that it is an inevitable end. or cycle... but saying we have Nothing to do with the situation is ignorance.
 
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Swa j-Ten

Guest
I've said this before, humans are doing two things:

1. Emitting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.
2. Cutting down trees, which not only releases the carbon dioxide inside them, but reduces the earth's capacity at CO2-scrubbing by degree.

The net effect is carbon dioxide buildup. Whether climate change is cyclic or not is not the point - we are not helping, and the question is whether you believe the Government should:

a) Give tax breaks and federal subsidies to oil companies for offshore drilling, or
b) Discourage the use of fossil fuels and fund research into alternative means
 
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Swa j-Ten

Guest
Also, notice that the sudden overwhelming bantering about the phenomenon - which has been on the table for some time now - is fueled Rush Limbaugh, et al., and articles such as these:

http://www.webcommentary.com/asp/PrintArticle.asp?id=driessenp&date=070206

NOTE: The article does not purport or even attempt to challenge the merits of the argument, and instead attacks the arguers: 1. Scientists, 2. Politicans, 3. Environmental activists, 4. Companies.

Their thesis is that all these people are making some huuuge profit off of the global warming phenomenon. Let me ask you this: are the people who voted them into office seeing any of that profit?
 
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gil stevens

Guest
i agree we arent helping the situation, but it would be occuring regardless of whether we run our discos on dead dinosaurs or on water.. look at some graphs, the major spike in co2 right now could well be our doing, but it all looks pretty damn cyclic to me..
 

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Swa j-Ten

Guest
it's amazing, how professional you can make a scatter plot look in Excel..
 
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Swa j-Ten

Guest
in fact, I think that's Verdana in the axis labels. They must have been using Excel:mac
 

Jupiter Rover

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2006
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South Florida
gil stevens said:
i agree we arent helping the situation, but it would be occuring regardless of whether we run our discos on dead dinosaurs or on water.. look at some graphs, the major spike in co2 right now could well be our doing, but it all looks pretty damn cyclic to me..


that graph would work if the earth wasnt only about.. 5000-7000 years old..

im not into that theory of the earth being millions or whatever years old.
 
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gil stevens

Guest
are you for real? 5000-7000 years? you cant be serious..
 

Jupiter Rover

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2006
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South Florida
thats about how old the OLdest civilization dates to. theres too much dissproof of the world being millions of years old. most people dont realize how old that actually is.. and the scientists who say it is that old dont ever have a good explanation why.. its just because.. and because they "dated bones to be that old" but most methods of dating are unaccurate.. especially carbon dating. they have carbon dated live mollusks.. well there shells. and the reader sayed they were ancient.. the only way we can prove how old things are, are by dates and written documents.. which dont go past 5000 bc.. i havnt researched it in a while. its just my opinion. but i wouldnt mine hearing why so many people think the earth is milllions of years old. so YES im very serious
 
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Swa j-Ten

Guest
alright Leslie, you explained this to me once before. I may have been really drunk.

But the new vice is dip now, and I'm all ears. Why are we convinced that carbon dating works?




Leslie, btw, everybody, is an esteemed geologist. Seriously, I have a drinking problem.
 
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gil stevens

Guest
what about the dinosaurs man? while not civilization per se.. they certainly existed. plato wrote of the atlantean civilization that existed 9000 years prior to his writing, and that was more then 2000 years ago. what about neanderthals? cro-magon.. did they not exist? if the earth is only 5000 years old, then how old is the universe? the solar system? 5000 years in geologic time was like 30 minutes ago.. did this all just pop up out of nowhere?
 
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Swa j-Ten

Guest
if you found a watch in the middle of a desert, what would you conclude: that it popped up out of nowhere?

No, it had to have been created, and placed there.
 

p m

Administrator
Staff member
Apr 19, 2004
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La Jolla, CA
www.3rj.org
Swa j-Ten said:
if you found a watch in the middle of a desert, what would you conclude: that it popped up out of nowhere?

No, it had to have been created, and placed there.
depending on the brand of the watch, I may be able to tell if John or Ho dropped it there.
depending on my state of mind, I may or may not return the watch.
 
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gil stevens

Guest
Swa j-Ten said:
if you found a watch in the middle of a desert, what would you conclude: that it popped up out of nowhere?

No, it had to have been created, and placed there.

and thats relevant to what? so your saying our earth was gently placed here 5000 years ago?
 
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Swa j-Ten

Guest
no, I'm pretty sure it was a violent affair - probably very magnificent if someone might have had the fortune of witnessing it.

I believe, after all, that it happened in seven days.
 

Leslie

Well-known member
Apr 28, 2004
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Kingsport TN
I wouldn't go so far as "esteemed", lol.... Wait 'til you get to know more geologists...

A) It's not just carbon-dating, it's radiometric dating, using all sorts of things...
Carbon-14, Pb-Pb, K-Ar, etc. etc. etc. And, it's cross-checked by multiple iterations, against other types, not just depending on a single hit... (FWIW, Carbon-14 is only useful for "recent things", less than ~50,000 years... you have to use the lead or potassium-argon to get into the really old dates.)

B) Whenever I'm dealing with someone that's cutting it off at around six thousand years old, I realize that I could talk/type 'til I'm blue in the face about radiometric dating, so I use a different tact, and bring up the glacial varves.

If you look at areas near glaciation, you will find in the sediments below the glaciers where glacial deposits are being made. When the deposits are being made into a fairly still body of water, you will see an alternation between the summer and winter layers that distinctly shows up in the sediment as alternating layers of colored sediment, in light and dark layers (actually, it's coarse and fine that is alternating, but is usually more noticeable by color). If you take a light and a dark layer together as a couplet, you've defined a year's worth of sediment. Start with this year, take the top two, the next couplet is from last year, so on and so forth. So, you can start from today and go back through time counting couplets, counting years. Sweden is where the idea came about, and have places that go back 15, near 20,000 years, but there are lakes in Japan that go back from today to near 50,000 years ago. That alone has thrown a "young Earth" out the window. But knowing how this pattern works, and identifying fossil varves in the rocks, we've seen 100,000 year stretches over and over at many different points in the Earth's history. So, if we had a couple of hundred thousand years here, and a couple of thousand years there, etc. etc., we quickly end up realizing that, even if we don't look at anything but varved rocks, that we've got to have several million years to make up those layers alone.

Now, think about all the layers of beach sand, and sea shells, and mud flats, and so on and so forth.... LONG before anyone had any idea of using radioactive decay to come up with actual numbers to the age of the Earth, geologists had used the principles of "cross-cutting relationships" and "superposition" and "faunal succession" to figure out the order of deposition of most of the rocks you see. They realized, to have seafloor get crunched into the middle of a mountain core, then erode most of it away, rift it all apart, then crunch it back up in the middle of a bunch of newer seafloor, had to take a phenomenal amount of time... hundreds of millions of years.... and that's just for Phanerozoic Eon, with fossils involved... once you get into the PreCambrian, you've got many more times the amount of rock and layers to deal with, you just didn't have the fossils there.....
 
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Swa j-Ten

Guest
Question, Leslie -

how thin (or thick) are these alternating summer/winter 'layers?'
 

Lucasd2002

Well-known member
Jan 7, 2006
1,674
0
Atlanta-ish
Jupiter Rover said:
thats about how old the OLdest civilization dates to. theres too much dissproof of the world being millions of years old. most people dont realize how old that actually is.. and the scientists who say it is that old dont ever have a good explanation why.. its just because.. and because they "dated bones to be that old" but most methods of dating are unaccurate.. especially carbon dating. they have carbon dated live mollusks.. well there shells. and the reader sayed they were ancient.. the only way we can prove how old things are, are by dates and written documents.. which dont go past 5000 bc.. i havnt researched it in a while. its just my opinion. but i wouldnt mine hearing why so many people think the earth is milllions of years old. so YES im very serious

THAT is the dumbest shit I have EVER read. Are we devolving back to the middle ages? I'm not going to even start to comment on the spelling and grammar - it is atrocious. I do applaud you for figuring out all those letters on the keyboard.

Wait a second, are you Pat Robertson?