I will say driving my 109 2-door topless is THE best way to enjoy it, but supremely inconvenient with East Coast weather!
INEOS Grenadier
- Thread starter ERover82
- Start date
Out in the desert, top down may occasionally be desirable, but mostly... to channel the dust away. This is Chris Snell's dashboard after about 250 miles on dirt.
So I guess I'm wondering what your point is? That you have more dust out west than we do here? Sorry, wrong. Maybe more often than we do, but go a week here without rain and drive down a gravel road and your dash will look like that in a mile or two. Or that if you take your vehicle on a dirt road it might get dirty? So when you go out to off-road and it comes to the point you actually go off road do you tell everyone to roll up their windows and turn on the AC? That seems a rather antiseptic way to wheel to me. Did the dash in my CJ look like that at times? Yes, and much worse. Cleaning it up seemed like a small price to pay for the fun I had.Out in the desert, top down may occasionally be desirable, but mostly... to channel the dust away. This is Chris Snell's dashboard after about 250 miles on dirt.
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Maybe, but we are not talking about trailer queens, are we?
Burke's Classic in Anza-Borrego desert:
Every time I come home from a camping trip I just open all 4 doors and the rear tailgate and use my leaf blower to clear out the dust. Then a little wipe down with a damp microfiber and we're ready to roll. I've never vacuumed this LR4.
Top down is nice and I see what you're saying.....it's just with the dust & sun out here in AZ you start to crave cover. LOL....my dermatologist told me to get rid of my convertible after my last skin cancer treatment along my right eyebrow.
Top down is nice and I see what you're saying.....it's just with the dust & sun out here in AZ you start to crave cover. LOL....my dermatologist told me to get rid of my convertible after my last skin cancer treatment along my right eyebrow.
So....I had my test drive today. I will say that I did like it. Thoughts:
Driver Cockpit:
- Overall, a comfy place to be. I like manual seat adjustments and the seats themselves were very comfortable. I would go as far as to say one of the most comfortable drivers seats I have been in.
- The BMW shifter is wierd. In the 10-15 minutes I had, I didn't think to much about it, but I didn't like pushing a button to put it into park and not having the statisfaction of "putting it into drive". The one thing I didn't think about until just now was how quick and easy one could go from drive (forward) to reverse. I have had situations where I didn't make a climb and started going backwards and I quickly go into reverse. Not sure how that will work with this setup.
- The area for feet is small. The pedals appear, and are, somewhat shifted left. It did not prove to be an issue driving, but looking down it just looked off. The guy I drove with said a couple people hit the gas instead of the breaks. I didn't but I could see how some could.
- I liked the infotainment being in the center and having the area in front of the steering wheel free. No issues at all with that for me. Looking at the speedometer is a quick eye shift right instead of down, I wonder if this is even safer as you keep the road in your view as you do it.
Off Road Drive:
- You can boogie a bit in low range. I am so used to going so slow in the Rover (always < 7MPH) in low range and crawling around. They guy had to tell me to speed up a bit a few times. He said it could go up to 30MPH in low range which is pretty amazing. Also didn't feel the shifts of the transmission. Very refined.
- The course was simple as it needed to be with a couple spots that might give a thrill to a new off road driver. Hill decent worked very good and it did a nice job on some pretty sharp angles while rounding some motocross berms. I would say as a stock vehicle on 32's it feels very capable.
Size:
- This is my biggest concern but if I put away my specific use case of replacing a much larger SUV and look at it for what it is, it's really not bad.
- If I think of this how I think of the D90 and the Discovery back in the 90's, it's kind of perfect. If the D90 was more like this when I was in the market for my first Discovery, I would have definately went this route. The Discovery seats didnt fold out of the way and I would not want to sleep in it, either.
Build:
- It really does feel like it is built like a tank. Not a single rattle or shake. It is dead solid. My friend who does off road builds and fabrications came along and was checking out the underpinings and he was impressed by what is being offered on a stock vehicle. The hardware on the linkage, panhard rod, axles, etc is all solid and beefy. It all is a step above the D90/Discovery of the 90's. That being said, there was no information on things like axle shaft size, etc and if it could handle something like 35's over the long haul That is TBD.
Overall Opinion - who is this for?
Large SUV People - Nope
- For folks coming from larger SUV's (Tahoe, Expedition, Sequoia, etc.), there is a lot to give up to make it work. It just is not in that category, but nor does it claim to be, so it is really not an appropriate comparison.
Bronco/Wrangler 35's and Rock Crawling People - Maybe
- From the perspective of a Bronco or Jeep Wranger, I think a buyer who really wants to hit stuff that needs 35's and doesn't care about towing and upscaleish looking refinement, those would be the way to go TODAY. I say maybe above because I think time will tell to see if these are 35 tire and big rock crawling capable to do what those vehicles do. If they prove to be, then they are right in there, even with the larger body to potentially bang on trees and branches that you would squeeze by with those other ones. Just like back in the day with the Discovery Series 1 off roading with Jeeps and having more body to worry about.
Mid-Size Cool-Off-Roady-SUV People that don't want 35's - Yes
- This was exactly my demographic when I bought my first Discovery. I wanted an SUV that was not cookie cutter, had some flair, and could go off road today with potential for really rough stuff in the future. I also didn't need three rows of seats and didn't plan on sleeping in the car. If this were next to that Discovery or D90 on the lot, this would clearly be the winner. With that, I think Ineos did what they set out to do - make a rightful successor to the live axle Defender that is potentially better in every way.
- If I were in that market today and looking at a Jeep Wranger Unlimited, Defender 110, 4 Runner TRD Pro, and 4 door Bronco, I think I would chose the Ineos if in the same price range. I did a quick search on cars.com and found all of these in the 60k range, give or take few 1000. If the Ineos can put this out at 60K similarly equipped, they will steal from that market. If it is 20k more, I think they just might flop in the US market attempting any real volume.
- One extra thing to mention in this category. The only two vehicles that can tow over 7000 pounds are the Defender and the Grenadier. If towing is needed, then the competition is really cut back and the Grenadier looks a lot more atractive with only one competitor.
- I should also mention that the Defender is the only one in this category with 7 seats avaialble. If that is what you need, then its the only one, assuming you agree on all the "cool" ones I let in, and that it did not include the likes of a Jeep Grand Cherokee.
Tom
Driver Cockpit:
- Overall, a comfy place to be. I like manual seat adjustments and the seats themselves were very comfortable. I would go as far as to say one of the most comfortable drivers seats I have been in.
- The BMW shifter is wierd. In the 10-15 minutes I had, I didn't think to much about it, but I didn't like pushing a button to put it into park and not having the statisfaction of "putting it into drive". The one thing I didn't think about until just now was how quick and easy one could go from drive (forward) to reverse. I have had situations where I didn't make a climb and started going backwards and I quickly go into reverse. Not sure how that will work with this setup.
- The area for feet is small. The pedals appear, and are, somewhat shifted left. It did not prove to be an issue driving, but looking down it just looked off. The guy I drove with said a couple people hit the gas instead of the breaks. I didn't but I could see how some could.
- I liked the infotainment being in the center and having the area in front of the steering wheel free. No issues at all with that for me. Looking at the speedometer is a quick eye shift right instead of down, I wonder if this is even safer as you keep the road in your view as you do it.
Off Road Drive:
- You can boogie a bit in low range. I am so used to going so slow in the Rover (always < 7MPH) in low range and crawling around. They guy had to tell me to speed up a bit a few times. He said it could go up to 30MPH in low range which is pretty amazing. Also didn't feel the shifts of the transmission. Very refined.
- The course was simple as it needed to be with a couple spots that might give a thrill to a new off road driver. Hill decent worked very good and it did a nice job on some pretty sharp angles while rounding some motocross berms. I would say as a stock vehicle on 32's it feels very capable.
Size:
- This is my biggest concern but if I put away my specific use case of replacing a much larger SUV and look at it for what it is, it's really not bad.
- If I think of this how I think of the D90 and the Discovery back in the 90's, it's kind of perfect. If the D90 was more like this when I was in the market for my first Discovery, I would have definately went this route. The Discovery seats didnt fold out of the way and I would not want to sleep in it, either.
Build:
- It really does feel like it is built like a tank. Not a single rattle or shake. It is dead solid. My friend who does off road builds and fabrications came along and was checking out the underpinings and he was impressed by what is being offered on a stock vehicle. The hardware on the linkage, panhard rod, axles, etc is all solid and beefy. It all is a step above the D90/Discovery of the 90's. That being said, there was no information on things like axle shaft size, etc and if it could handle something like 35's over the long haul That is TBD.
Overall Opinion - who is this for?
Large SUV People - Nope
- For folks coming from larger SUV's (Tahoe, Expedition, Sequoia, etc.), there is a lot to give up to make it work. It just is not in that category, but nor does it claim to be, so it is really not an appropriate comparison.
Bronco/Wrangler 35's and Rock Crawling People - Maybe
- From the perspective of a Bronco or Jeep Wranger, I think a buyer who really wants to hit stuff that needs 35's and doesn't care about towing and upscaleish looking refinement, those would be the way to go TODAY. I say maybe above because I think time will tell to see if these are 35 tire and big rock crawling capable to do what those vehicles do. If they prove to be, then they are right in there, even with the larger body to potentially bang on trees and branches that you would squeeze by with those other ones. Just like back in the day with the Discovery Series 1 off roading with Jeeps and having more body to worry about.
Mid-Size Cool-Off-Roady-SUV People that don't want 35's - Yes
- This was exactly my demographic when I bought my first Discovery. I wanted an SUV that was not cookie cutter, had some flair, and could go off road today with potential for really rough stuff in the future. I also didn't need three rows of seats and didn't plan on sleeping in the car. If this were next to that Discovery or D90 on the lot, this would clearly be the winner. With that, I think Ineos did what they set out to do - make a rightful successor to the live axle Defender that is potentially better in every way.
- If I were in that market today and looking at a Jeep Wranger Unlimited, Defender 110, 4 Runner TRD Pro, and 4 door Bronco, I think I would chose the Ineos if in the same price range. I did a quick search on cars.com and found all of these in the 60k range, give or take few 1000. If the Ineos can put this out at 60K similarly equipped, they will steal from that market. If it is 20k more, I think they just might flop in the US market attempting any real volume.
- One extra thing to mention in this category. The only two vehicles that can tow over 7000 pounds are the Defender and the Grenadier. If towing is needed, then the competition is really cut back and the Grenadier looks a lot more atractive with only one competitor.
- I should also mention that the Defender is the only one in this category with 7 seats avaialble. If that is what you need, then its the only one, assuming you agree on all the "cool" ones I let in, and that it did not include the likes of a Jeep Grand Cherokee.
Tom
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There's a little joke in Hawaii about knowing where golfers are from when play backs up.
The locals always sit & wait in the shade, the tourists are always sitting in the sun.
The point KvT used to make - building a vehicle for a specific purpose is wrong.
Really? All of my Rovers have been perfectly happy up to 30mph in low range. The engine's not even at 3k rpm in the 4th gear.
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Yeah, I guess I just am used to putting it in 1st and low all the time and not really caring about going fast. Maybe I just never tried. Keep in mind that the last time I off roaded in my Discovery where I needed low range it was 5 years ago. The time before that was 10 years prior. I suppose I ought to get some more recent experience. Disregard that part, then.
No worries.
On a bunch of trips in the last three years or so I kept wondering - what's better, 15 mph in high range 2nd gear or low range 4th. I still have not decided.
On a bunch of trips in the last three years or so I kept wondering - what's better, 15 mph in high range 2nd gear or low range 4th. I still have not decided.
That's exactly why I said as a second vehicle. I would never own a Wrangler/Bronco as a DD. As a toy hell yes. Also, an important difference in rigs we are talking about. When I got home I simply took a hose to the inside of my CJ, and you can somewhat do that with a couple of the Bronco models. I understand with a LR4 that would be problematic. But I'll still insist you pay to play. Weather it's repairing something you damaged on the trail or cleaning your shit it's all part of the adventure.
As to dusty conditions. In the late '70's early '80's when I had my CJ we would go groundhog hunting. That entailed driving miles and miles down back-roads, mostly gravel. It's no longer an option but you'd be surprised at the amount of people who had used oil sprayed on the road in front of their house to cut down on dust. And, ironically, they were drinking water supplied by a well.
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And size of garage and/or driveway and/or parking lot to keep all them in, which I suppose feeds back into the financials...
I do. It doesn't change anything.
Bill Burke is an outlier - he turned hobby into profession, so whatever he does has little bearing on the hobby.
Yes and no.
You can live in the termite-infested trailer in the woods of Carolinas and pour quarter a mil into a monster F350 that does only one thing - drive over one particular mud puddle five times a year.