Kneeling NFL players

SGaynor

SGaynor

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Dec 6, 2006
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Bristol, TN
Don't over think it...

It was just Trump doing what Trump does - Says shit to get the lowest common denominator of his base fired up against "them," whoever "they" may be at the time. He does this all the time. What shit pots did he stir when he had his last rally in AZ: defended his statements about Charlottesville, threatened a govt shut down if the wall wasn't included in the budget, hinted at pardoning Arpaio, NAFTA withdrawl.

My daughter went to the rally in AL (she's not a fan); her review: He was really hard to comprehend: talked like a 5th grader, jumped around on all kinds of topics, but didn't really say anything.

This is Trump's MO: stir the pot at the rallys by saying all kinds of outrageous things that get his base worked up. Then let it dominate the news cycle for the next couple of weeks while he does (or does not) do other things. It's all a smoke screen. He's been doing this since Day 1. It's classic propaganda.
 
seventyfive

seventyfive

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Jan 3, 2010
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over there
SGaynor said:
Don't over think it...

It was just Trump doing what Trump does - Says shit to get the lowest common denominator of his base fired up against "them," whoever "they" may be at the time. He does this all the time. What shit pots did he stir when he had his last rally in AZ: defended his statements about Charlottesville, threatened a govt shut down if the wall wasn't included in the budget, hinted at pardoning Arpaio, NAFTA withdrawl.

My daughter went to the rally in AL (she's not a fan); her review: He was really hard to comprehend: talked like a 5th grader, jumped around on all kinds of topics, but didn't really say anything.

This is Trump's MO: stir the pot at the rallys by saying all kinds of outrageous things that get his base worked up. Then let it dominate the news cycle for the next couple of weeks while he does (or does not) do other things. It's all a smoke screen. He's been doing this since Day 1. It's classic propaganda.
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i know sometimes a rash is just a rash and inconvenient truths...but somebody is stirring the shit pot. this is the kind of shit the kgb was very very good at. think about alex jones, russian times, etc they have millions of americans (lower iq) thinking our cia is behind all the bad shit going on!
 
brian4d

brian4d

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Dec 3, 2007
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High Point, NC
seventyfive said:
and the bigger question i have is who's really behind this? why now? and im not referring to trump. the discourse we're seeing is bigger than trump.

?Never interfere with an enemy while he?s in the process of destroying himself.?

who really has anything or everything to gain when all of our media is focusing on the division instead of the progress? all media. left right and especially the conspiracy ones.

think about it. aside from when im at the hockey rink (5 days a week), everyone is so fucking polarized. then again im in the blast radius.

what is the vibe in north carolina? it'd be interesting to see if division based on location is happening...in other words what is a historically divisive issue in north carolina and is there a lot of attention centered on that topic?

up here it's specifically political. in urban areas it's race. in the rural areas it's the flag. you get what im gettin at? i know its sounds paranoid but is there something other than just us influencing the discourse??
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Mike,

Lately the talk of the town has been all the hurricanes and everyone holding their breath. High Point is growing (just announced a new ball park downtown) and the American dream is alive and well. Racial issues have not been an issue like you see in many urban areas, it's not divided. It's not perfect but it's certainly not what you see on CNN or in some urban areas. People pay more attention to local government and a majority of people I know are rooting for Trump to succeed. Taken a step further people are simply doing what they can to keep food on the table and get a darn raise or better job. Live the American dream.

We did have a group of Black Lives Matter (20 total) rip down a statue of Gen. Robert Lee and our local Sheriff threw the book at them, quickly. That's one thing about the south, the Local PD's and Sheriff offices don't put up with foolishness, this may be because there is less foolishness to deal with compared to large cities, who knows.

NC is a huge Military state and most North Carolinians (I associate with) respect our Flag and what it represents. On top of that the Anthem is sang at little league and t-ball games and our Pledge is read before school and board meetings. From where I stand the focus is on God, family, health, economy and quality of life. It's very simple but fantastic at the same time.
 
brian4d

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
SGaynor said:
Don't over think it...

It was just Trump doing what Trump does - Says shit to get the lowest common denominator of his base fired up against "them," whoever "they" may be at the time. He does this all the time. What shit pots did he stir when he had his last rally in AZ: defended his statements about Charlottesville, threatened a govt shut down if the wall wasn't included in the budget, hinted at pardoning Arpaio, NAFTA withdrawl.

My daughter went to the rally in AL (she's not a fan); her review: He was really hard to comprehend: talked like a 5th grader, jumped around on all kinds of topics, but didn't really say anything.

This is Trump's MO: stir the pot at the rallys by saying all kinds of outrageous things that get his base worked up. Then let it dominate the news cycle for the next couple of weeks while he does (or does not) do other things. It's all a smoke screen. He's been doing this since Day 1. It's classic propaganda.
Click to expand...

It's depressing to think about how long you're going to be mad and sad about Trump Scott. You kind of have a weird obsession, all kidding aside.
 
seventyfive

seventyfive

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Jan 3, 2010
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over there
its nothing new, media has to fill ad space. bloggers have to generate revenue. but is it simply the media, bloggers, conspracy theorists really just trying generate revenue at the expense of america failing? i hate corporations and feel they don't lose a minute of sleep over anything but profit, but would they really want america to be completely divided while north korea is itching to blow shit up?

without the consumer they have a hard time selling ad space, so they need us alive.

personally my opinion is putin wants to do to us what we did to mother soviet union.
 
seventyfive

seventyfive

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Jan 3, 2010
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100
over there
brian4d said:
It's depressing to think about how long you're going to be mad and sad about Trump Scott. You kind of have a weird obsession, all kidding aside.
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more to the point this is exactly what we really need to put aside. trump won. like him or not, we need to focus on tomorrow not yesterday. hopefully next time we'll have a better choice. like ive said numerous times, it was like choosing between anal warts or vaginal warts.
 
brian4d

brian4d

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Dec 3, 2007
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High Point, NC
seventyfive said:
more to the point this is exactly what we really need to put aside. trump won. like him or not, we need to focus on tomorrow not yesterday. hopefully next time we'll have a better choice. like ive said numerous times, it was like choosing between anal warts or vaginal warts.
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I'll do you one better Mike, maybe, just maybe something good can come from Trump. This Tax cut stuff is looking promising so far with the exception of the new high tax bracket the dems want to put in place. Otherwise, I'll take it all day long. Damn, you drug me in. Back to the topic.
 
SGaynor

SGaynor

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Dec 6, 2006
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Bristol, TN
brian4d said:
It's depressing to think about how long you're going to be mad and sad about Trump Scott. You kind of have a weird obsession, all kidding aside.
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You remember what you said about Obama right?

seventyfive said:
more to the point this is exactly what we really need to put aside. trump won. like him or not, we need to focus on tomorrow not yesterday. hopefully next time we'll have a better choice. like ive said numerous times, it was like choosing between anal warts or vaginal warts.
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Pyromaniacs in a field of strawmen.

When exactly did I say ANYTHING about Trump winning? or the "past" (I guess talking about last month is the "past"). Did I say anything about Hillary should be president? that Trump should be impeached?

I said that all Trump does is rile up the base with bullshit slogans, while not dealing with real issues, or that pesky thing - governing. Oh, and pointed out a whole bunch of things going sideways while Trump rails about the NFL.

But good lord, that's quite the argument tactic there: Whenever criticized about what Trump does/does not do, your (Brian's too) answer is "Stop hating that he won...look to the future!" and just completely ignore the insanity that is the Trump administration.

The fact of the matter is that the GOP and Trump control the 2 branches of government required to pass laws, and can't get out of their own way or get anything done. Like pass a budget (that's realistic).

Pointing out that our current government is completely incompetent isn't the sign of a mental illness.
 
Devildog01

Devildog01

1
Jan 25, 2010
3,544
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your moms bed
SGaynor said:
Because it was basically dying down, and then Trump went fanned the flames.

Do you really think Jerry Jones was planning on taking a knee before the game Monday prior to Trump's inflammatory statements?

It's a distraction because it's sucked all the air out of the news, which is overshadowing some of the following:


Oh, and Facebook has said that over 3,000 (what they've found so far) ad spots were purchased by Russian entities to sway US public opinion during the last election.

Yeah, I wonder what reasons Trump would have to cause a distraction.

Trump has taken the Roman "bread and circuses" to a new level - all circus, no bread.
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Yea but he hasn't killed anybody yet so........
 
1920SF

1920SF

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Jan 6, 2007
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NoVA
brian4d said:
Mike, not speaking for you at all. Simply stating the facts. There are civilians and service members that are offended by this, there are some that aren't offended as well. We can't rewrite history. Our Anthem and colors have been displayed during events since the 1800's in a sign of unity and patriotism.
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So much ground has been covered today, I won't go back over it since Scott, Mike, you, etc all conversed.

What I will offer is some perspective on why I'm jaded about this enough to not care about the issue one way or another (mind you I know what I do when the anthem plays or the flag passes by uncased).

People care about whether NFL players show due respect to the flag in large numbers, right?

I would ask the same people that if they care, b/c of what it represents and how you espouse it is disrespectful to the military (a portion of the argument several have used in this thread) to consider caring enough to engage their chief executive and their legislative representatives about what our desired endstate is in Afghanistan.* Engage those same folks about what the nation's vital interests are there that keep (increasing, again) service members deployed there. Ditto for Iraq.*

More than that, if folks really are concerned about such things, ask Congress to pass a budget to give the military stabiity in funding.* Do so with the knowledge and expressed purpose of telling your representative that you see a direct line between the aviation accidents of late that have killed servicemembers (too many Marines) and the reduction in readiness that is, in part, associated with fiscal uncertainty.* Another substantive part of that would be to query, like the Afghanistan & Iraq lines above, if we have too many requirements for too few resources (the aviation example is most pertinent, though recent Navy issues illustrate that it is across the services)-so should the executive and Congress scale back where we allocate those resources to recover readiness?*

I realize that is far more complex than feeling strongly about people kneeling at pro sporting events, but if people really care-that could actually help and do something genuinely patriotic. As an example.

*That is agnostic to party, the same criticism was true during the last administration as it is now.

I merely raise those examples so if we want to discuss 'caring' about things, when I think about caring I think about where time/money is applied.

I sure hope folks cancel their NFL gameday pass and donate the proceeds to the VFW or something equivalent.

Perhaps they take the time on Sunday when they would have been watching football to go to a VA hospital to help?

Or maybe they take that time to visit a veteran's cemetary to replace flags?

Real displays of patriotism.

I'm being somewhat facetious to a point just to illustrate that this issue is perfect as a distractor, it flares up the divide (remember all the complaints about a previous POTUS which just asked them to show bipartisan leadership? Ironic) to keep people from focusing on the other substantive issues at hand.

r-
Ray
 
seventyfive

seventyfive

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Jan 3, 2010
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100
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Brian,

This is what I was referring to regarding geographic specific divisive issues.

I grew up in a military family during the Cold War...the KGB is very very good at what they did and continue to do.
 
seventyfive

seventyfive

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Jan 3, 2010
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Ray,

I know you are being facetious. No fucking way any civilian is going to actually do anything like you described! It's hard enough for most civilians to muster up the energy or respect to remove their fucking hat when the anthem is played. Write congress? Volunteer at the VA? Donate television subscription money to the VFW?

Your post almost made me giggle!
 
brian4d

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
1920SF said:
So much ground has been covered today, I won't go back over it since Scott, Mike, you, etc all conversed.

What I will offer is some perspective on why I'm jaded about this enough to not care about the issue one way or another (mind you I know what I do when the anthem plays or the flag passes by uncased).

People care about whether NFL players show due respect to the flag in large numbers, right?

I would ask the same people that if they care, b/c of what it represents and how you espouse it is disrespectful to the military (a portion of the argument several have used in this thread) to consider caring enough to engage their chief executive and their legislative representatives about what our desired endstate is in Afghanistan.* Engage those same folks about what the nation's vital interests are there that keep (increasing, again) service members deployed there. Ditto for Iraq.*

More than that, if folks really are concerned about such things, ask Congress to pass a budget to give the military stabiity in funding.* Do so with the knowledge and expressed purpose of telling your representative that you see a direct line between the aviation accidents of late that have killed servicemembers (too many Marines) and the reduction in readiness that is, in part, associated with fiscal uncertainty.* Another substantive part of that would be to query, like the Afghanistan & Iraq lines above, if we have too many requirements for too few resources (the aviation example is most pertinent, though recent Navy issues illustrate that it is across the services)-so should the executive and Congress scale back where we allocate those resources to recover readiness?*

I realize that is far more complex than feeling strongly about people kneeling at pro sporting events, but if people really care-that could actually help and do something genuinely patriotic. As an example.

*That is agnostic to party, the same criticism was true during the last administration as it is now.

I merely raise those examples so if we want to discuss 'caring' about things, when I think about caring I think about where time/money is applied.

I sure hope folks cancel their NFL gameday pass and donate the proceeds to the VFW or something equivalent.

Perhaps they take the time on Sunday when they would have been watching football to go to a VA hospital to help?

Or maybe they take that time to visit a veteran's cemetary to replace flags?

Real displays of patriotism.

I'm being somewhat facetious to a point just to illustrate that this issue is perfect as a distractor, it flares up the divide (remember all the complaints about a previous POTUS which just asked them to show bipartisan leadership? Ironic) to keep people from focusing on the other substantive issues at hand.

r-
Ray
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Ray, I agree but the anthem is much larger than just the military. While the military, police, responders are all honored, it's about unity, and coming together as a nation for a short time to simply put our differences aside. To celebrate our great country and the opportunities it's provided. Even if it's for 1 short minute before we enjoys pastimes that allow us to escape the reality of the everyday hustle and bustle.

Singing of our Anthem has been the uniform way to show respect/patriotism in large gatherings since the 1800's. A set time for everyone to reflect. That's why these football players had it so wrong. I agree with Mike. It would have been a huge middle finger to Trump if all the teams stood in the field standing together and Trump would have been silenced. On the contrary they played directly into his hand and now we have a nationwide debate over who can/cannot be more Patriotic, how, why and when... As you just pointed out.

Lastly, I would argue you can be Patriotic by volunteering anywhere, by helping anyone in need or just performing a good deed during your busy day. That's what I would like to think America is all about.
 
brian4d

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
seventyfive said:
Ray,

I know you are being facetious. No fucking way any civilian is going to actually do anything like you described! It's hard enough for most civilians to muster up the energy or respect to remove their fucking hat when the anthem is played. Write congress? Volunteer at the VA? Donate television subscription money to the VFW?

Your post almost made me giggle!
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Mike,

You should come live in the South for a year. Your mind would be blown. My older brother just completed a Habitat for Humanity home this past Saturday. He's a contractor and it's childsplay for him, does it all the time.
 
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