Chris its an old dog new tricks thing! I see 0 & think right off the cuff hot temp BAD!Chris-St Louis said:
I have gone though most of the oil in several Part stores. There are not many ACEA rated oils to begin with!
Oil Quiz.
- Thread starter Chris-St Louis
- Start date
I have gone though most of the oil in several Part stores. There are not many ACEA rated oils to begin with!
Thats Ok, You arent alone. Many people think the same thing.
Yeah, ACEA a3/b3 is rare, mostly I suspect that Americans arent willing to pay more...Maybe becuase they dont understand the difference... Who knows.
Mobil one 10-30 boasts a1/b1 ratings...So what, they are obsolete.
Yeah, ACEA a3/b3 is rare, mostly I suspect that Americans arent willing to pay more...Maybe becuase they dont understand the difference... Who knows.
Mobil one 10-30 boasts a1/b1 ratings...So what, they are obsolete.
See I thought these motors "needed" oils with high zinc and phosphorus because of the flat tappet lifters and such. Rotella has something like 1300ppm where Mobil 1 0w-40 has under 900 or so. Mobil1 15w-50 has a pretty high zinc rating as well, similar to rotella.
Chris what are your thoughts on zinc, etc.
Chris what are your thoughts on zinc, etc.
Chris-St Louis said:Thats Ok, You arent alone. Many people think the same thing.
Yeah, ACEA a3/b3 is rare, mostly I suspect that Americans arent willing to pay more...Maybe becuase they dont understand the difference... Who knows.
Mobil one 10-30 boasts a1/b1 ratings...So what, they are obsolete.
I'll say it again Amsoil European 5w40:
API SM/CF
ACEA C3-04
ACEA A3/B3-04
ACEA A3/B4-04
ACEA C3
BMW LL-04
Mercedes Benz 229.31, 229.51
Porsche
Saab
Volvo
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 505.01
DaimlerChrysler MS-10725
sven said:
Zine is like adding Vitamins to Wonderbread. It can make a lesser oil perform better. With a flat tappet, a high sheer rating will make up for the lack of zinc. Which is good. ZDDP Accelerates cat failure. You can make up for it with a better oil (Acea a3/b3) and your cats will live longer.
ZDDP was used in the past alot because it was cheap and it worked. Now, that manufactures are warrating new cats for 80-100k miles.... They dont want th eoil screwing them up.
You see oils for diesels have higher zddp because they dont have cats, but thats going to change in the next few years.
brianhoberg said:
Thats almost resonable. I bet I spend at least 50 changing my oil.... 7 quarts of Mobil 1 at 7$ a quart, and a 10$ filter then having to ride back across town to dump the oil blah blah blah, 65$ isnt bad if they will check the diffs tcase gearbox and grease the driveline..
sven said:
Actually, not really...My Jetta has one, but I havent followed enough to know what the EPA specs on diesels.
Ok, I am a TOTAL dork, I was thinking about it last night and I dont think I was as clear as I could be about ZDDP. Let me try here. ZDDP is an extremely cheap dual purpose additive. It's only claim to fame is that it can make a very cheap base stock perform like a higher grade base stock under some very limited conditions. Chlorine and ZDDP both have the ability to enhance the camshaft protection of inferior oil base stocks. Both also have side effects that are not acceptable under at least some conditions, in at least some cars.
If you go by ZDDP alone, ANY current low SAPS/low ZDDP diesel oil is far "better" than the oil used a few years ago that suposedly prevented any problems.
In the case of camshaft lobe and flat tappet lifter protection, it serves no purpose until after the shear forces exceed the protection capability of the base oil. You are far better off selecting an oil that has passed industry standard test sequences specifically designed to measure the ability of an oil to protect flat tappet cam/lifters.
If one insists on hanging their hat on ZDDP (many do),understand that there are two different common types of ZDDP. Make sure you get the right one. Or, just stick to the industry standard ACEA oil service ratings that insure the type of protection you need.
ZDDP is used in vitually every snake oil on the market. GM EOS http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=EOS is in my opinion a more credible supplement than prolong and does contain ZDDP. I have not checked but it is a safe bet that prolong also contains ZDDP. All snake oils seem to. So put ANY snake oil in ANY HD diesel rated oil andd it will have more ZDDP in it than the older gas engine oil we used a few years ago, because it already does without adding anything. SAPS (ZDDP) was first limited in gasoline engine oil starting with ILSAC GF-1 in 1992 and the limits became increasingly stringent with GF-2, GF-3 and now GF-4. API CJ still allows far more SAPS/ZDDP than ILSAC GF-3 did several years ago.
Prolong claims on their website that they don't use zinc. http://www.prolong.com/A_ET.html The Z in ZDDP stands for zinc. But, it is probably not beyond any snake oil company to to claim to not use zinc when they do indeed use ZDDP and defend the position by stating that they meant no "elemental zinc" and did not intend their claim to mean that they don't use any zinc bearing compounds like ZDDP. I would be VERY surprised if there is no ZDDP in prolong. But, I would not be surpised by prolong with ZDDP failing to solve camshaft break-in problems. In fact.... The Gov came down on Prolong.... More marketing genius! http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/09/prolong.shtm
An ACEA A3/B4 approved oil in an appropriate viscosity with the addition of GM EOS makes better sense. Again, I cant see a good reason to do it, and you are lookign at reduced cat life. there are no ZDDP limits on ACEA A3/B4 approved oil. As long as they are not also C1,C2,C3 approved they will still have the full complement of ZDDP in them. There is no such thing as an oil that is ILSAC approved AND ACEA A3/B3 approved (but some use misleading claims that sound like they meet both standards).
The fact that so many people are now spending considerable energy trying to find sources of ZDDP, while those same people are still ignoring the industry standard ACEA oil service ratings that include ASTM standardized test sequences that reliably measure the oils ability to protect specific types of camshafts/lifters against wear. Wives tails die hard.
The following all happened at about the same time:
1) Most flat tappet lifter manufacturing ended in the United States and was replaced by offshore manufacturing (mostly China)
2) Camshaft/lifter companies experiented with new lobe profiles and metalurgy. Their competitors followed suit.
3) The main flat tappet cam lobe wear test sequence was removed from the API/ILSAC oil service rating requirements
4) The SAPS limits in ILSAC approval dropped very slightly resulting in another incrimental reduction of the maximum ZDDP level allowed in ILSAC approved oil.
With all 4 of the above occuring at the same time, you would really need to be a camshaft/lifter manufacturer to blame all of the problem on ZDDP.
With all that in mind, for the Rover V8, if one REALLY wanted more ZDDP I would use an oil that is ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4 or API-CI4, CJ4 approved combined with the GM EOS. This combo WILL reduce the life of oxygen sensors and catalyts. And, frankly, I dont think it would yeild any better results.
If you go by ZDDP alone, ANY current low SAPS/low ZDDP diesel oil is far "better" than the oil used a few years ago that suposedly prevented any problems.
In the case of camshaft lobe and flat tappet lifter protection, it serves no purpose until after the shear forces exceed the protection capability of the base oil. You are far better off selecting an oil that has passed industry standard test sequences specifically designed to measure the ability of an oil to protect flat tappet cam/lifters.
If one insists on hanging their hat on ZDDP (many do),understand that there are two different common types of ZDDP. Make sure you get the right one. Or, just stick to the industry standard ACEA oil service ratings that insure the type of protection you need.
ZDDP is used in vitually every snake oil on the market. GM EOS http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=EOS is in my opinion a more credible supplement than prolong and does contain ZDDP. I have not checked but it is a safe bet that prolong also contains ZDDP. All snake oils seem to. So put ANY snake oil in ANY HD diesel rated oil andd it will have more ZDDP in it than the older gas engine oil we used a few years ago, because it already does without adding anything. SAPS (ZDDP) was first limited in gasoline engine oil starting with ILSAC GF-1 in 1992 and the limits became increasingly stringent with GF-2, GF-3 and now GF-4. API CJ still allows far more SAPS/ZDDP than ILSAC GF-3 did several years ago.
Prolong claims on their website that they don't use zinc. http://www.prolong.com/A_ET.html The Z in ZDDP stands for zinc. But, it is probably not beyond any snake oil company to to claim to not use zinc when they do indeed use ZDDP and defend the position by stating that they meant no "elemental zinc" and did not intend their claim to mean that they don't use any zinc bearing compounds like ZDDP. I would be VERY surprised if there is no ZDDP in prolong. But, I would not be surpised by prolong with ZDDP failing to solve camshaft break-in problems. In fact.... The Gov came down on Prolong.... More marketing genius! http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/09/prolong.shtm
An ACEA A3/B4 approved oil in an appropriate viscosity with the addition of GM EOS makes better sense. Again, I cant see a good reason to do it, and you are lookign at reduced cat life. there are no ZDDP limits on ACEA A3/B4 approved oil. As long as they are not also C1,C2,C3 approved they will still have the full complement of ZDDP in them. There is no such thing as an oil that is ILSAC approved AND ACEA A3/B3 approved (but some use misleading claims that sound like they meet both standards).
The fact that so many people are now spending considerable energy trying to find sources of ZDDP, while those same people are still ignoring the industry standard ACEA oil service ratings that include ASTM standardized test sequences that reliably measure the oils ability to protect specific types of camshafts/lifters against wear. Wives tails die hard.
The following all happened at about the same time:
1) Most flat tappet lifter manufacturing ended in the United States and was replaced by offshore manufacturing (mostly China)
2) Camshaft/lifter companies experiented with new lobe profiles and metalurgy. Their competitors followed suit.
3) The main flat tappet cam lobe wear test sequence was removed from the API/ILSAC oil service rating requirements
4) The SAPS limits in ILSAC approval dropped very slightly resulting in another incrimental reduction of the maximum ZDDP level allowed in ILSAC approved oil.
With all 4 of the above occuring at the same time, you would really need to be a camshaft/lifter manufacturer to blame all of the problem on ZDDP.
With all that in mind, for the Rover V8, if one REALLY wanted more ZDDP I would use an oil that is ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4 or API-CI4, CJ4 approved combined with the GM EOS. This combo WILL reduce the life of oxygen sensors and catalyts. And, frankly, I dont think it would yeild any better results.
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brianhoberg said:
Good news! I was at K-mart and they had no less then *3* Acea A3/B3 oils!
Penzoil Platnium, castrol Syntec 5-50 and Mobil 0-40!!! And, actually, Cheap too!
rover4x4 said:
i think their inspection is more of a visual inspection. and since I drive it in and it's warm, they prolly would not be reading it accurately anways.
i was at sears yesterday, picked up a 12qt case of rotella t 15w40 for 15 bucks. it was the only case left, if you are around a sears you may want to check in...
So how do you determine the best motor oil for a motor other than the Rover V8? Such as a Jaguar v12.
jymmiejamz said:
Couple of factors. What year is it? Is there a current manufacture spec,flat lifters or roller? Ohc? and such.
Did you have a specific model in mind?
D Chapman said:
really? We use 15w40 in the ford diesel trucks at work! So my 4.6 Rover V8 is going to take the same oil as the monster diesels I service at work? doesn't seem right.... but i'm no expert.
I've been using mobil 1 10w30 in my truck for the life of the engine and all this talk about it being bad has me worried...