The never-ending Rack Thread

[mkronmal]

I personally don't see this as a DWEB issue, other then RS is making them look bad because one of the the "officers" of DWEB is the owner of a company with shitty customer service. I really appreciate the forum that DWEB provides and believe they have communicated appropriately on the issue.

With regards to the RS issue, I feel for the folks impated and in their shoes, I would likey file a lawsuit or criminal complaint. Of course, I would NOT have been dumb enough to give him any money up front, regardless of how cool his product is.

If you disagree with what I say thats your right. If you think I'm kissing anyones ass, then you clearly don't know me. If you agree with me, thats cool.

P.S. I don't know the direct ownership of DWEB, but if Kyle is not an invested owner, I'd drop him like a hot potato. My guess is that he has a financial stake in DWEB and so ongoing participation is likely. Either way I do appreciate this place and more importantly oall of you that provide the content.

Cheers!

 

[Axel]

Becasue "any other vendor" does not also happen to be an owner of this site.

Well, whatever your opinion on the matter is, it's only that - an opinion. While you are entitled to it, your opinion matters little when it comes to deciding how this site is run. So I think we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Axel]

P.S. I don't know the direct ownership of DWEB, but if Kyle is not an invested owner, I'd drop him like a hot potato. My guess is that he has a financial stake in DWEB and so ongoing participation is likely. Either way I do appreciate this place and more importantly oall of you that provide the content.

Cheers!

As I stated earlier, the site is primarily a hobby. However, since we do accept occasional donations, have some bills to pay and also sell items through the Dweb store, the legal entity DiscoWeb LLC was set up so that the site can have it's own separate bank account. This also means that we file tax returns and collect sales tax on items sold in NJ, where DiscoWeb LLC is registered. The 3 registered partners in DiscoWeb LLC is Ho, Kyle and myself.
This is all a matter of public record, which anyone could find out on their own with a little searching - but I see no reason to keep it a secret - there is no conspiracy going on here.

 

[cptyarderho]

...there is no conspiracy going on here.

So you ADMIT you are hiding aliens?

So much drama, it is like watching The Real World.

with Roof racks.
























(or not... )

 

[Axel]

So you ADMIT you are hiding aliens?

Nope. Dweb is partly run by aliens - but they aren't hiding......

 

[drg]

David, Agro and I both were IP banned. I don't know if any others were or not. [...]

Sadly, I stand corrected. My apologies.

And, if Kyle were not (hopefully) so busy welding away [...]

Uh, right. Or maybe he is? I would have thought that he'd have the sense to follow through and mail me the 8 brackets he owed me when he promised that I would receive them "by week's end" almost three weeks ago, but he didn't. And who could be easier to please than me at this point? 8 brackets which should just be sitting around in his shop, waiting for him to spend the 10 minutes to bag them up and ship. Would have looked pretty good for me to come back here and say "I got my brackets, he's trying, folks."

I don't have anything else of value to contribute to this conversation, except to reiterate that if Kyle shows up again and you call him on his behavior you might very well get banned too.

Now there's an interesting tidbit. That would be unfortunate, but this point, I have to say I'd shed remarkably few tears.

Axel, as you know, I have no personal reason to be critical of you, and in fact have measurable reason to believe you are truly trying to do what's right by everyone. So I hope you'll take this in the genuinely friendly sense that is intended:

You're judged by the friends you keep. "You" in this case is Dweb (not Axel), and the key word is "keep".

That's not the same as 'guilt by association'. If Ho kills someone (to use curtis' analogy), assuming John is an accessory is wrong. But once the verdict is in, if John then comes back and says "I heard that guy mouthed off to Ho real bad, so piss off", while he's still not an accomplice, we'd be stupid not to draw a few conclusions about John's judgement.

What I mean is:

I'm not saying you (or Ho) have any responsibility for what Kyle does. What I am saying is that it makes DWeb look bad when one of the owners stiffs people in the Land Rover community, and then comes here and bans people for criticizing him.

Now, that is different from what you have said earlier. This statement actually holds some merit, which is why it is important to realize that Dweb and RS is not one and the same.

Technically true, Dweb and RS are not 'one and the same'. I'll take it a step further: Axel is not Dweb and Ho is not Dweb (probably to lesser degrees of "is not", but at least, Axel and Ho help make Dweb. Dweb doesn't make Axel and Ho).

But RoverSolutions is Kyle, and Kyle is a Dweb admin, and for the rest of us here, that means that Kyle is 1/3 of Dweb. So while Axel and Ho may not have anything to do with Kyle or the crap he's pulling, Kyle and his business do have a lot to do with Dweb.

Those of us who are pissed at Kyle will naturally look to the other 2/3 of Dweb and wonder what they think about it. Letting him run people around like agro1 and James describe doesn't help.

(This doesn't help either:

$ host www.roversolutions.com
www.roversolutions.com has address 204.157.1.4
$ host www.discoweb.org
www.discoweb.org has address 204.157.1.3

Now, all that means is that Kyle set up both servers and they are both hosted in the same place, and it's all been discussed before; probably also means that giving Kyle the boot would take Axel and Ho some significant effort. But again, it doesn't help.)​

And eventually, not changing an association with someone who is jerking people around, both in business and here on Dweb, will itself be seen as a kind of approval, fair or not.

Has that time come and is that what I think of Axel and Ho? Hardly. I still respect you both, and I'm sure the whole topic annoys the hell out of both of you. But I'm more patient than many people. I'm just saying that if you're wondering why some folks are scowling in the general direction of Dweb, that's why, and even though you haven't personally done anything wrong and you would never act like Kyle has, you can't really tell them they've got no reason at all.

Taking the above in mind, I do have to agree with Agro1: Kyle's ban-happy reaction to the criticism does undeniably reflect poorly on Dweb.

 

[drg]

As for me: After $12 worth of cold-rolled steel, a hack saw, a hammer, a file, a cordless drill, a cheap Harbor Freight vise (now broken), a dial caliper, 1/4 can of Rust-olieum, some racer tape, a hammered finger and 6 hours I shouldn't have had to spend later, I made my own damned brackets, which will work just fine, thank you. So I have no more need for Kyle. Which is good, too, because holding your breath waiting for him to do something is a great way to turn blue in the face, and nothing else.

 

[draaronr]

damn, lets see...about a year and half ago there were argument about free speech on discoweb. then there was the d-web lounge, then banninationns, then server problems, then a no-discoweb time.

wow, dejavu. .

This is getting very similiar. After seeing how close the IPs are. Lets just leave this topic. You can only beat a dead horse so much. Close this thread already, and lets move on.

 

[andrewv]

This is getting very similiar. After seeing how close the IPs are. Lets just leave this topic. You can only beat a dead horse so much. Close this thread already, and lets move on.

Send me $415 and I'll drop it. If you're not affected by it, why post?

 

[draaronr]

Send me $415 and I'll drop it. If you're not affected by it, why post?

If you want to get personal about it we can, othewise I don't see what good bitchin and whining for a month has done. I am just tired of hearing about it. You got fucked. I feel bad for you, everyone knows about it. Thats the end of discussion. I just get tired of hearing about it that's all. So no $415 for you my friend.

 

[andrewv]

Again, if you're not affected, why do you keep reading and/or posting?

 

[Axel]

My guess would be the 'train wreck effect'.

 

[andrewv]

My guess would be the 'train wreck effect'.

No doubt.

When Axel closed the other thread, I believe his parting post was to start up another thread after a bit of time passed to let others know if things started coming through. They haven't and it can be viewed as a community service to let others know what they may be getting into. If you don't like it, don't read it.

 

[p m]

You're judged by the friends you keep.

While it may be true, you don't change your friends because of how people judge you. If you do, your friendship is worth shit.

 

[agro1]

While it may be true, you don't change your friends because of how people judge you. If you do, your friendship is worth shit.

Sure...But if I were being judged simply becasue of my association with someone, you can be damn sure I'd have a little sit down with that "friend" and straighten his ass out.

 

[p m]

... assuming you can?
If I were close to MD, I'd head out to his shop and give him a hand. No reason to believe than anything one can _say_ he doesn't know.

 

[drg]

While it may be true, you don't change your friends because of how people judge you. If you do, your friendship is worth shit.

No, you don't change your friends because of how people judge you. You choose your friends based on who they are and how they act. If you choose friends who aren't worth shit, or if you stand by them when they wrong the people around you, then eventually people are rightly going to decide that integrity is less important to you than blind loyalty.

Since Axel and Ho have a demonstrated history of integrity, I suggested that they keep that in mind, and tried to explain why Agro1 has a point, and isn't just flinging shit at them. Eventually if Kyle doesn't make things right, they are going to have to decide whether they want to be associated with that. That time probably isn't now, but it is likely to come. I'm sympathetic to the fact that that sucks for them.

And they aren't 'friends' of Kyles, they're 'associates' via their collaboration to create Dweb. The same thing applies, just replace 'friend' with 'associate'. I said "you're judged by the friends you keep" because that's how the old saying goes.

I think Axel got what I meant, and whether he agrees or not, he doesn't owe me any kind of answer. And really, the whole business about how Kyle's behavior reflects on Dweb is less important than how it reflects on Kyle and Rover Solutions, and the fact that Dweb members need to know that sending money to KVT in good faith has turned out badly for a number of us.

It's an ongoing problem: he came back and told everyone he was making everything right, but he hasn't. If you're tired of reading about it, ignore it; nobody is demanding you participate or even pay attention. You telling us to move on isn't going to impress anyone.

If you really were so generous as to offer Kyle free labor, I doubt it would do any good. Many of the things people are complaining about should be so easy for Kyle to fix that labor clearly isn't what's lacking. Blitzkreig only wanted him to talk to the shipping company to confirm the value of the package they distroyed, but he couldn't be bothered. Andrew waited so long for his rack that he no longer owns the vehicle it was supposed to go on, and despite supposedly having a huge waiting list for exactly that item, Kyle says he has to wait indefinitely for him to sell it to someone else. All I wanted was for him to ship the rack and parts that supposedly were finished almost four months ago. And the list, unfortunately, goes on. Luckily I got my rack (without hardware), but it doesn't look like any of the others have gotten anything, not even a message from Kyle acknowledging what they are owed and when he'd try to make it right.

No, Kyle's problem with these people is a failure to follow through, a failure to communicate, and a failure of integrity. He's doing bad business. Giving him a few hours or a few week's worth of shop labor won't solve those problems. He's got some soul searching to do and one hell of a hole to dig himself out of. He's made it impossible for us to care what other factors might be making his life difficult, so we don't.

 

[Michael Slade]

My guess would be the 'train wreck effect'.

That's my reason for coming back again and again and again and again and....

 

[p m]

As a 1/3-satisfied Kyle's customer, it is very nice of you, David, to spend your time helping others get their wares by elaborating on delicate nuances of friendship and association. My hat's off.

 

[Axel]

And they aren't 'friends' of Kyles, they're 'associates' via their collaboration to create Dweb.

I can decide for myself who my friends are, thank you.