Politics, flags, etc...

seventyfive

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2010
4,280
100
over there
hilltoppersx said:
even a great off road outing thread could turn to politics on Dweb. see you all next year.


and it's getting very old.

personally, as a veteran and a son, grandson, and great grand son of veterans i get extremely offended when the ensign is disrespected...but it is within one's rights.
you can fly a flag upside down, drape it over yourself thinking it's patriotic, even let it touch the ground (which are all no-no's). but if you feel you need to burn it or even joke about it, you are crossing the line.
 
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Nomar

Well-known member
Apr 23, 2004
6,078
13
Virginia
I like the flag.
I fly it at my house in good weather.
But not at night because I dont have spotlights on it and that is a flag no-no.
 

hilltoppersx

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2010
1,010
0
NY
www.nelrc.com
i drove to conclave with a few other trucks proudly flying the flag right side up to raise money for the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund. I'm not one to argue politics. But the fact that PT's flag was stolen wasn't right and I gave him mine because he seemed upset and I live in an apartment and don't have a place to fly it. I could have stored it properly until the next convoy for heroes but at the time it seemed like the right thing to do. I didn't attend the event to argue politics, I attended to eat Chapman's delicious fucking food and wheel the shit out of my truck and hang out with a bunch of other guys who were stupid enough to buy the same brand of truck.
 

Ballah06

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2007
5,638
16
Savannah, GA
Hanging up a a 6x10 flag in the garage tomorrow, enough said.

P.S. if you want to burn the U.S. flag, fuck you - go to some other "better liked" country.

Semper Fidelis!
 

msggunny

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2007
2,978
3
Holly Ridge, NC
This whole flag debacle has gotten my wheels spinning a bit. Many of us on this site and in this community have served our country in the military. Some, if not many of us, have seen combat and had close friends and family killed or injured by the enemies of our country. Talk about disrespecting the National Ensign tends to make our blood boil, not to mention seeing it happen.

However, we who chose to serve did so knowing that we were protecting the greatest country in the world. A country that has certain rights afforded to its citizen and that are one of the reasons we became a country in the first place. Regardless of our opinion as to how they are exercised by some people in our society, they are still exercising their rights as given by our constitution.

I have lived in countries where just mentioning things like what has been mentioned here, and on other sites, would end with the offending individual being woken up late at night to the sounds of his/her shins being smashed. If his family was lucky later they would find the remains of his/her body in a field somewhere.

Is flying the flag upside down when not in a true emergency wrong? I say yes. However freedom of speech advocates will argue that the people who fly it upside down are making a statement as to the countries situation. And oddly enough I have fought and lost friends for these people to exercise their rights.

A great point about the Flag Code was brought up concerning the latter. However it goes even more into detail as to how to not disrespect the flag.

Anyone here worn a US flag on their tee shirt? "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery."

Ive seen this several times too: "The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling."

Here are some more:
"The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature"

"The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown." How many of us use US flag napkins during the 4th?

However, all this is voluntary and up to the individual to exercise their own personal respect for the symbol of our nation:

"While wearing the colors may be in poor taste and offensive to many, it is important to remember that the Flag Code is intended as a guide to be followed on a purely voluntary basis to insure proper respect for the flag. It is, at least, questionable whether statutes placing civil or criminal penalties on the wearing of clothing bearing or resembling a flag could be constitutionally enforced in light of Supreme Court decisions in the area of flag desecration.51
In the past, the Supreme Court has held that states may restrict use of pictures of the flag on commercial products.52 There is a federal criminal prohibition on the use of the flag for advertising purposes in the District of Columbia.53 While commercial speech does not receive the full protection of the First Amendment,54 the status of these statutes and cases can not be taken for granted in light of Eichman and Johnson."

Burning the flag is also considered to be "free speech" and although I fully support every part of the US Constitution I can not say that seeing someone do that to a symbol that represents a country that I served almost 22 years for, had friends loose their life for, and sacrificed a lot for wouldnt move me to do something irrational.
 

kennith

Well-known member
Apr 22, 2004
10,891
172
North Carolina
In my personal opinion, if a person is incapable of properly displaying the flag, that person should refrain from displaying it at all. It is a matter of national allegiance, power, and pride, and because of that aspect it is the forerunner and first representative of our nation, both in peace and in battle.

The only representations of the Flag of the United States in my possession are those affixed to, or associated with items related to my military experience. As I no longer serve, I keep only those items directly given to me, or specially authorized for wear or display, rather than any that are representative of the military as a whole.

As I am sure, in my permanent state of confusion, I would fail to properly display, store, and maintain any further representation of that Flag, I do not keep one. My continued allegiance with the founding principals of The United States of America is enough, for it is not modern practice with which I ally myself, it is with the spirit and pride as set forth and written in definition by the founding fathers of this great nation, who placed at risk their lives and liberty that we might enjoy such things in pride.

As for those who might defile such a great symbol, such may not be their defined right, but neither is respect their responsibility. Nevertheless, it is the practice of cowards and fools.

Cheers,

Kennith
 

mud ruts

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2007
1,601
3
Columbus,Ohio
Thank you to everyone who has served our country so the rest of us can be free. I'm sorry this freedom is not respected by all!
 

ArmyRover

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2007
3,230
1
Augusta, GA
"It is the Soldier, not the reporter, Who Has
given Us Freedom of Press. It is the Soldier, Not the
poet who has given us Freedom of Speech. It is the
Soldier, not the campus organizer that has given us the
Freedom to Demonstrate. It is the Soldier, not the lawyer
that has given us the Right to a Fair Trial. It is the Soldier,
Who Salutes the Flag, Serves Under the Flag, and Whose
Coffin is Draped by the Flag, Who gave the protester the
right to burn the flag."


You can substitute in, Marine, Airmen, or Sailor. No matter our branch those that choose to serve, know that what we hold dear may be violated or destroyed by others.

In that vain I have an American flag on my right shoulder almost everyday, of every month for the last 15 years, anyone that feels froggy can step up and try to burn it. I can't promise how that will work out for you, like Gunny I tend to get irrational over certain things. I've stood next to some fine men and women to defend what it stands for and will defend it to the last.
 
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LRflip

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
5,741
25
none of your fucking business
It was probably an irrational acting person that took the flag from PT to begin with.

Although it seemed like the right thing to do at the time and he probably doesn't regret it.
 

mud ruts

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2007
1,601
3
Columbus,Ohio
LRflip said:
It was probably an irrational acting person that took the flag from PT to begin with.

Although it seemed like the right thing to do at the time and he probably doesn't regret it.
If the flag was removed because it was being abused then they did a good dead, if it was taken just to f-with PT then that's ok too!
 
mud ruts said:
If the flag was removed because it was being abused then they did a good dead, if it was taken just to f-with PT then that's ok too!

Are you advocating theft of another person's property because you don't like what they are doing with it?

Some of you simply don't get it and have regressed to long before the Magna Carta.

We are a nation of laws and I was complying with those laws and exercising my God-Given, constitutionally protected and affirmed by the Supreme Court of the US.

Whose side of this argument do you really want to be on? The side of complying with God's law and the Nation's laws, or some other nebulous emotional law?
 

cosmic88

Well-known member
Sep 15, 2010
436
0
Florida
Dear P.T.,

I get it. I completely disagree with your symbolic display but I understand why you did it... symbolism! Just think of the offense it causes to others. Before you have a chance to say that you are equally offended by the state of our nation since September eleventh, I get that too. Really, I do understand your point of view.

As you reflect on your patriotism and your "rights" to express yourself bear in mind the rights we enjoy should not necessarily be used offensively with one another. I'm sure there exists in an obscure draft of the Bill of Rights somewhere, a right to be an asshole. However, your buddy Ben Franklin would most likely frown upon the exercise of that "right" in relation to the symbol of the nation he helped to establish.

I consider you to be a good friend and have for some time now, so I feel comfortable saying these things to you. Just because you CAN, does not mean you should.

Next time fly the Union Jack upside down. No one will know and you can have a fun laugh at your in-plain-sight, private joke.

And by-the-way, I have burned many flags as it is the proper / prefered method for retiring the Flag. Scouts in fact perform a flag burning ceremony for a patch. So go ahead and burn it, just do it properly and with reverence, remembering what it has stood for and all the sacrifice paid in its honor.

p.s. I'll call you later for a parts order. :patriot:

p.p.s. Only a coward steals a flag. If you have a problem with his display, confront him like a man with honor.
 
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LRflip

Well-known member
Oct 8, 2006
5,741
25
none of your fucking business
The fact of the matter is this...P.T. has the right to fly the flag any damn way he pleases.

He also knows that flying the flag may cause some ill will towards him. He is within his rights to do whatever (legally) knowing what might come to him (illegally).

Bottom line is, opinions are like assholes....P.T. and the "Flag Thief" both had one, and apparently all you crazy fucks have one too.

I still don't agree with what P.T. did with the flag but, I also don't agree with the taking of his flag. I too agree that the US has been in rough shape since 9/11, but fly it right, fly it proud, and don't let anyone ever know that America is anything but prosperous and fucking proud.

'Merica!
 

ArmyRover

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2007
3,230
1
Augusta, GA
I don't like thieves no matter the reason.

I don't care that Paul flew the flag upside down, that's his call.

I don't agree with his idea of burning it next. Just because it's legal doesn't make it a good idea.
 
Apr 20, 2004
6,928
226
Floyd, Virginia
I think the whole thing with P.T. is a bit deeper than a lot of you guys know... and he hasn't really been completely honest with you guys regarding his "flag issues"..

We all know P.T. as a fellow Rover enthusiast.... Successful small business owner and Rover Expert..

He came out of nowhere on Dweb and everyone here fell in love with him immediately based on his wealth of knowledge, smooth and well written threads and the folks he surrounded himself with..

Little did many of us know P.T. had experienced a huge amount of failure in his past......

That's right...

The true P.T. was never revealed... Until now.

P.T. as a young man was a huge fan of Calvin Klein and his philosophies.. P.T. would walk around his house idolizing Calvin and his undergarment line...

Posters of CK models on his wall...CK advertisements posted in his locker at school and so on.

In an early interview with P.T. when asked how he felt about all the big time undergarment companies like Hanes and Fruit of the Loom overshadowing the market he stated "Monopolies can stifle competition, the vulnerable can be exploited, we all deserve a Fair Shot"

In the fall of 1995 P.T. got the call he always dreamed of... A photo shoot with Calvin Klein on a new line that were to be released in the early Spring of 1996....

Code name "American Iron"

P.T. spent countless hours... putting himself through a living hell conditioning for the gig... (getting pumped up) They even called in long time CK model Marky Mark to help P.T. prepare for the shoot.

Wahlberg and P.T. spent many a days in the studio dancing to "Good Vibrations" with the Funky Bunch... With the training P.T. felt like he was more than prepared for the upcoming ad campaign...



IN Feb of 96...CK ditched the whole "American Iron" idea due to some differences with a plant in China and P.T. got a severance of pennies on the dollar compared to the potential payout he could have received...

P.T. went back to the drawing board and decided to follow a career in the "Redistrubution of Rover Parts"

Photos have recently surfaced on the web.... P.T. ... You should be proud my brother even if the CK gig failed... You are still a respected member of this community and have the support of at least 47 percent!

http://cf.mp-cdn.net/b9/9b/5573191219902d4d1d4c8431f96d.jpg


Waive that flag.... Waive it wide and high!
upright please..
 
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KyleT

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2007
6,059
8
39
Fort Worth, TEXAS
banana hammock


Section 8a of the United States Flag Code states, "The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property."

Most individuals who have served in the military service of our nation will (or should) recognize this signal.

As a result of the many traitors and enemies we as a free people have, both foreign and domestic, as a result of the many unconstitutional acts, legislation and atrocities passed and/or committed against US citizens and their life, liberty and property, and as a result of policies that have allowed (and continue to allow) enemies of this nation to enter in large numbers through a porous border policy, I believe the life, liberty and property of US Citizens are in dire danger and distress.

I would argue that we are indeed in a time of distress as a nation, many blinded by ignorance, emotion and or just plain stupidity.
 
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crown14

Well-known member
May 11, 2006
6,288
4
Clayton, NC
Here in NC, flags go right side up at the top of the pole unless ordered different by the Gov. Flags depicting other rival ACC teams than your own are fair game though.
 

seventyfive

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2010
4,280
100
over there
so October 20th I'm allowed to use a NC State flag as a trash bag while wearing a terrapin flag like a cape? It's a fact that in the wild turtles secretly sneak inland, sometimes hundreds of miles, to find a wolf pack. They wait for the right moment then 5-7 of them create a diversion while the two strongest turtles grab a wolf instantly killing it then they drag it back miles traveling many dangerous inner and outer beltway loops until they arrive back to the Chesapeake where they bathe the wolf in old bay and natty bow and feast like kings.
 

1920SF

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
2,705
1
NoVA
KyleT said:
I would argue that we are indeed in a time of distress as a nation, many blinded by ignorance, emotion and or just plain stupidity.

Like many others on this board I've spent a great deal of the last decade either playing the away game, preparing for it, or recovering from it. quite frankly I just can't see how bad off we are.

Unless the flag is upside down b/c Americans are atrociously fat we're not all that distressed. More people die from falling furniture than terrorists, so that can't be it...

I respect the right to fly it upside down as a statement, but that doesnt make it an intelligent statement. Freedom of speech also allows us to say that it is regrettable to disrespect our flag in such a way when others have sacrificed so much for it. Wrapping yourself up in the term patriot is a false pretense too, people I would call patriots wouldn't label themselves as such-that's how you know they actually are one.