Seattle 5-oh punches woman for jay-walking

adamsclarke said:
We have officer discretion is a lot of what we do and some laws state what shall be done, but we are there in enforce the law, not make it....so I think your gripe should be on the attorneys and appleate courts that write the laws.

i would have warned and then sprayed them....but I guarantee that would have hurt worse but gotten a faster compliance with the commands.

Officers on the street are as much involved in "interpreting" which laws to enforce, as judges, attorneys, etc.

If you don't like the way laws are being enforced, get elected. It's really top down here. Too few take advantages to influence legislation and, never forget, all politics are local.
 

SCSL

Well-known member
Apr 27, 2005
4,144
152
Adams - long time no talk.

Clearly the woman was "resisting arrest". But arrest for what? The issue here, however, is what kind of society we want to live in, how we are developing LEO culture (particularly among young LEOs), and -more broadly- the disturbing trends in the post-9/11 national security state. For those of us, yourself included, with a sense of history, these are certainly disturbing trends.

So after this incident, everyone knee-jerks: LEOs defend the LEO, Sharpton cries racism, etc. But the broader context is lost. How is this a positive for the city of Seattle, or for our society? What is "learned" here? If your answer is "not to resist an officer", you are wrong. What is accomplished is that the dividing line between citizens (of any stripe) and LEOs (or the state, which they represent) is set in even sharper relief. LEO authority is stamped even deeper into the metal of our culture. Is this good? Some would say yes. But in manifests in many negative ways as well (I used the airport absurdity example earlier, but there are many, many others).

The authority of the state must not be allowed to reign supreme in our society, or it will be forever transformed into something that looks more like Europe. In America, the state has traditionally (and up until fairly recently) played a subtle role in day-to-day life - it has been "passive" rather than "active". Increasingly, today, the state is taking a more and more active role. Remember - authority, once handed over to the state - is rarely gained back by the private individual. In the rare cases where it is gained back, the process is often violent and bloody. We continue to hand over authority (and the ability to project power) to the state at our own peril.
 
To add to the above points, we have allowed our legal system to go to such an extent that it is nearly impossible for the lay person to know if their actions are lawful.

Between too many laws and too many "Law Enforcement Agencies", the principle of minimal control has been prostituted for the benefit of those in charge.

What was it al Hasan said "that which is not prohibited is permitted, that which is not permitted is prohibited" or some such newspeak.
 

jim-00-4.6

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2005
2,037
6
61
Genesee, CO USA
question for the LEOs here:

Is there some rule that says when pulling a person over for an alleged traffic violation, you MUST ask them a stupid question, like "Do you know why I pulled you over?" or "Where are you going?"
And is there some OTHER rule that says if the motorist answers the stupid question with a stupid answer, he should have some bullshit fine?
"Um.. you pulled me over because you like my car? no? Because you saw a box of doughnuts on the back seat? No? Because you have a quota to hit, and you're almost going off-shift? huh-uh? I give up. Why DID you pull me over?"

I got pulled over once for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign.
I know I didn't stop, i had just blown the top radiator hose and was trying to get home before the truck melted into the pile of british slag that it really is.

So the cop says, "this is a very dangerous intersection".
Actually, it's a crossing of 2 one-way streets, with nothing around.
So I said, "oh, have there been a lot of fatalities here?"
blank look.
"many accidents?"
continued blank look.
"or just a good spot to write tickets?"
that got a response: "Sir, is there a problem here?"
"No. I'd just prefer if you told me the truth. We both know I didn't come to a complete stop; & for that, I'll get a ticket. But we also both know this intersection isn't any more or less dangerous than any other. Do you mind if I go open the hood? My truck is overheating."

So I got a ticket and a point or two.
Paid the fine.
Now my insurance rates will go up, since I'm such a danger to society.
 

brian4d

Well-known member
Dec 3, 2007
6,499
67
High Point, NC
roverMc said:
You know that lady could have just sut the fuck up and took the ticket and none of this would have transpired....

No, that would require using her brain and if she's dumb enough to j-walk in front of a police officer she definitely won't resist arguing with him 'til she's blue in the face.
 

slowNstdy

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2005
408
0
Mckinney, Tx
if she would have shut the fuck up vs. bumpin' her gums i wuldnt be typing this right now. wheres the taser? that would have been icing on the cake. watch her fold up like a window shade. quit resisting quit resisting.........how bout some voltage for that ass
 

Welcome to Hell A

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2006
130
0
Between the Crips and Chiques
I gotta laugh at those of you that think jaywalking is such a big offense that it requires police attention, whether or not there are laws on the books to make it a criminal offense. And the blind loyalty toward LEO or authority is also appalling. I'm willing to bet that 0% of you use a crosswalk or go to the nearest intersection and cross there every time. That's why the automatic blind loyalty toward LEOs is disconcerting -- you do the same thing, commit the same crime -- but when a video comes out showing a cop in a bad light enforcing a silly statute that none of you follow, the cop could do nothing wrong.

Cops are not infallible, and here's a good example. Punching someone over jaywalking is ridiculous. There was no assault on an officer. If you call that assault, you're probably a pussy or are only propagating the 'officers can do no wrong' mentality.

I expect to be flamed on this one...hahaha. :D
 

roverMc

Well-known member
Feb 27, 2009
1,673
0
Deep, Deep South
Welcome to Hell A said:
Punching someone over jaywalking is ridiculous.
I expect to be flamed on this one...hahaha. :D

Yeah, you're right. Maybe he should have demonstrated the possible results of J-Walking by pushing her in front of a fast moving bus or something.....
 

Tugela

Well-known member
May 21, 2007
4,763
564
Seattle
Welcome to Hell A said:
I'm willing to bet that 0% of you use a crosswalk or go to the nearest intersection and cross there every time.

May I be the first to inform you that your estimate of 0% is a little low. I use crosswalks all the time. I'm never in that big of a hurry that I need to run across the street, against a light, etc.

Even crosswalks are no guarantee of safety. My wife was hit by a car in a crosswalk, she was on foot and had the light. The driver was inattentive and just a total douchebag who then sped off in his BMW. I'm talkin' bout YOU, Jesse Smith, hit and run motherfucker! May your insurance premiums bankrupt you.

Anyway, my point is that I don't consider the risk of getting hit by a car worth the convenience of crossing the street where and when I please. At least in a crosswalk I have a right to be there. If other people want to jaywalk, that's their decision, but they should be prepared to accept the consequences.
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,057
870
AZ
ptschram said:
To add to the above points, we have allowed our legal system to go to such an extent that it is nearly impossible for the lay person to know if their actions are lawful.

Between too many laws and too many "Law Enforcement Agencies", the principle of minimal control has been prostituted for the benefit of those in charge.

What was it al Hasan said "that which is not prohibited is permitted, that which is not permitted is prohibited" or some such newspeak.

Nowadays you are almost always doing something that is against "the law".
 

knewsom

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2008
5,262
0
La Mancha, CA
Welcome to Hell A said:
I gotta laugh at those of you that think jaywalking is such a big offense that it requires police attention, whether or not there are laws on the books to make it a criminal offense. And the blind loyalty toward LEO or authority is also appalling. I'm willing to bet that 0% of you use a crosswalk or go to the nearest intersection and cross there every time. That's why the automatic blind loyalty toward LEOs is disconcerting -- you do the same thing, commit the same crime -- but when a video comes out showing a cop in a bad light enforcing a silly statute that none of you follow, the cop could do nothing wrong.

Cops are not infallible, and here's a good example. Punching someone over jaywalking is ridiculous. There was no assault on an officer. If you call that assault, you're probably a pussy or are only propagating the 'officers can do no wrong' mentality.

I expect to be flamed on this one...hahaha. :D

There are places where jaywalking is not a big deal at all, and others where it's dangerous and puts more than just yourself at risk. I think as long as someone is exercising good judgement, they should be left alone. ...but as has been pointed out here, this particular spot is a BAD place to jaywalk, and there's a freakin' pedestrian overpass RIGHT THERE. From what I know, this enforcement was justified. The method of the enforcement is what's in question, IMHO.
 

sideview

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2006
505
0
Shenandoah Valley
According to the news, the school across the street requested the city to up enforcement of jaywalking there because it's been a problem. He was only doing his job...
 

Tugela

Well-known member
May 21, 2007
4,763
564
Seattle
sideview said:
According to the news, the school across the street requested the city to up enforcement of jaywalking there because it's been a problem. He was only doing his job...

I wish Franklin High School would also crack down on littering by their students. I picked up their styrofoam cafeteria lunch trays off the sidewalk for a few months until I got demoralized from fighting such a one-sided battle. Jesus, I'm starting to sound like a grouchy old man. Damn rotten kids! I'd like to punch you for trashing my neighborhood! I'll run you over with my walker!
 
Welcome to Hell A said:
Cops are not infallible, and here's a good example. Punching someone over jaywalking is ridiculous. There was no assault on an officer. If you call that assault, you're probably a pussy or are only propagating the 'officers can do no wrong' mentality.

I expect to be flamed on this one...hahaha. :D

Doood! I'm the biggest cop basher you've ever seen. If I'm not guilty of what I'm being "contacted" over, you can bet your ass there's gonna be an argument that usually ends up with me being arrested for disorderly conduct until the arresting officer's boss shows up and forces the arresting officer to his senses.

In this case, a police officer called a woman to come to him to discuss the infraction. Before he had a chance to explain why he was "contacting" the woman, she became verbally combative and insulting. As a result of this escalation, the LEO exercised his enforcement discretion and began the arrest process. The woman he was trying to arrest began to resist arrest (look up the force allowed in this case, it will astound you). The woman's companion battered the cop (it met the definition of battery, a rude and offensive touching) and he DEFENDED himself.

Again, I strongly suspect that had the first woman apologized, or even acted dumb, but polite, they'd both be at home laughing about how they got away with the heinous crime of jay-walking. Due to their lack of respect for other people (I have no doubt they treat most other people similarly), they got to go to jail and will pay the price.
 

Blue

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2004
10,057
870
AZ
ptschram said:
Doood! I'm the biggest cop basher you've ever seen. If I'm not guilty of what I'm being "contacted" over, you can bet your ass there's gonna be an argument that usually ends up with me being arrested for disorderly conduct until the arresting officer's boss shows up and forces the arresting officer to his senses.

In this case, a police officer called a woman to come to him to discuss the infraction. Before he had a chance to explain why he was "contacting" the woman, she became verbally combative and insulting. As a result of this escalation, the LEO exercised his enforcement discretion and began the arrest process. The woman he was trying to arrest began to resist arrest (look up the force allowed in this case, it will astound you). The woman's companion battered the cop (it met the definition of battery, a rude and offensive touching) and he DEFENDED himself.

Again, I strongly suspect that had the first woman apologized, or even acted dumb, but polite, they'd both be at home laughing about how they got away with the heinous crime of jay-walking. Due to their lack of respect for other people (I have no doubt they treat most other people similarly), they got to go to jail and will pay the price.

But the local taxpayers will be the ones who really pay the price after the lawsuit is settled outta court. Then they'll both be laughing as they shop for matching Jaguars about how getting punched by a cop was the best day of their lives.
 
Blue said:
But the local taxpayers will be the ones who really pay the price after the lawsuit is settled outta court. Then they'll both be laughing as they shop for matching Jaguars about how getting punched by a cop was the best day of their lives.

Jesus Bill, you're more cynical than I am. Get out of that field while there's still time and you're a nice guy. It will poison you, I tell ya!
 

roverMc

Well-known member
Feb 27, 2009
1,673
0
Deep, Deep South
Blue said:
But the local taxpayers will be the ones who really pay the price after the lawsuit is settled outta court. Then they'll both be laughing as they shop for matching Jaguars about how getting punched by a cop was the best day of their lives.

Then Lifetime television will make a movie about a male cop beating a woman jwalker and they will make even more money.